Skip to main content
Museum of Freemasonry

Masonic Periodicals Online

  • Explore
  • Advanced Search
  • Home
  • Explore
  • The Masonic Observer
  • Sept. 20, 1857
  • Page 9
Current:

The Masonic Observer, Sept. 20, 1857: Page 9

  • Back to The Masonic Observer, Sept. 20, 1857
  • Print image
  • Articles/Ads
    Article GRAND LODGE. ← Page 4 of 5 →
Page 9

Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Grand Lodge.

that we have not administered it during the last three years ? ( Hear , hear . ) You have , as usual , locked the door when the horse has gone , and I think you may well take the horse ' s opinion as to how he is to be got into a stable again . But it is , I repeat , hardly fair to press this matter forward , and then say that it is we who want to force a discussion upon it . We do not ask G . L . to adopt the report ; all we call upon them to do is to receive it , and enter it upon the minutes as usual ; but as Bro . Havers has raised the question of the whole report , or a part of it , I have nothing to do

but to ask you to adopt it in its entirety , for if you now shrink from giving your judgment upon the facts which are contained in the papers now before you , and which our report does nothing else but faithfully embody ; you may indeed be paying a graceful compliment to the executive , but you will go far to abdicate your own functions as a governing body . I move , my lord , as an amendment , that the whole report be adopted . W . Bro . WILKINSON seconded the amendment . W . Bro . J . HERVEYP . G . D . wished to say one word explanatory

, , of the position in which the Colonial Board at present stood . There was no member of that Board but entertained the highest respect for the G . M ., and was convinced that he was desirous to shape his course in the direction most beneficial to the order . ( Hear , hear . ) With regard to the report , he was quite sure that the worthy Bro . who drew it up did so with the conviction , that by their agreeing to it , they would confer a benefit on the Craft , and carry out the object for which they had been constituted a Board . ( Hear , hear . ) There was however in that report one point on

which he did not agree with the majority of the Board . Ho did regret that it should have stated that they were to expect their instructions from Canada ; but he did deny that it had been framed in any feeling of disrespect to Grand Lodge , or G . M ., or out of a desire of dictatorial interference with either of them . He was not quite satisfied that the constitutions did give them a power of expressing an opinion upon the matters submitted to thein , prima facie , but if that opinion was not expressed , the question might bo delayed for three , or even for six months . It would , for instance , come before the Grand Lodge on that night , and be referred back to the Colonial Board : the Board would give in their report in December , and the decision would be arrived at in March . ( Hear , hear . ) Without at all wishing that the Board should dictate to

G . L ., it would , he thought , be well that they should have the power of expressing their opinion to G . L . ( Hear , hear . ) It would then be for Grand Lodge to adopt that opinion , or not , just as it might please . The Colonial Board stood in a different position from the Board of General Purposes . If any matter for inquiry took place in any part of England , an answer to any letter sent there could be received in twenty-four hours , but if they had to write to India , to Jamaica , or to Australia , they would have to wait weeks and months before they could get a reply . He had before stated that he had

signed the report as a mere ministerial act , but although that was the case , he would say , those who drew it up were not imbued with any spirit of insubordination , but were ready to pay that respect to the G . M . to which he was so justly entitled . ( Hear , hear . ) V . W . Bro . HENDERSON , G . R ., remarked , that no one had said or thought that any member of the Colonial Board wished to treat the G . M . with disrespect . On the contrary , Bro . Havers had most guardedly and properly said , that he acquitted whoever drew up

the report from any such feeling . ( Ironical cries of hear , hear . ) The question was altogether one of discipline . The Colonial Board was completely a ministerial body , and as such was not entitled either to pronounce a decision , or to express an opinion , those being functions reserved to Grand Lodge itself . W . Bro . MASON thought the G . M . might well cry out , " Save me from my friends . " ( Hear , hear . ) There was in the report no insinuation that there was anything wanting on his part towards the restoration of harmony between the G . L . and the Canadian

Masons ; but the moment the report was read , up started a zealous Br . to talk of the G . M . ' s errors and shortcomings . ( Hear , hear . ) He could not but consider that to be a very injudicious course on the part of any friend of the G . M . ; and all there were his friends . ( Hear , hear . ) There had no doubt been shortcomings ; but as the order was founded upon the principles of brotherly love , relief , and truth , they were not , by observing one of these principles , to lose sight of the other two . They were not , because of their brotherly loveto lose sight of truth ; and they wore equally bound to afford

, relief to those who required it at their hands . But , departing from that point , lie considered that the Colonial Board required very little vindication for a determination to do their duty . The papers were sent to them by G . L . for consideration : they were referred to them surely for some purpose—it could not be for nothing ; and as men of business thev did something , and told Grand Lodge where

the mistake lay . Should they now bo blamed for doing that ? He did not believe that Grand Lodge would say , that , because they had taken that course , they had exceeded their powers . ( Hear , hear . ) The Board was constituted for the sake of saving the time of Grand Lodge ; and what was more proper than that G . L . should hear their opinions ? ( Hear , hoar . ) The proposition of Bro . Havers was , he considered , a most injudicious one , and they would do wrong to the Colonial Board if they were now hurry-scurry to reject their report . ( Hearhear . )

, W . Bro . WARREN , as a matter of order , wished to know if it was right that one Bro . ( Bro . Hervey ) should have been furnished with a copy of the report , and thus placed in a better position than the other brethren , not one of whom had a copy , and could only rely upon their memory in hearing it read . ( Hear , hear . ) The D . G . M . did not consider it at all a question of order . If the worthy Bro . had a charge to bring against any officer of the Lodge for furnishing the document in questionhe miht do sobut the

, g ; abstract question was not one of order . W . Bro . WARREN said his object was to know if he or any other Bro . might go before the opening of Grand Lodge to the Grand Secretary's office and get a copy . The D . G . M . —Clearly the worthy Bro . can go to the G . See . ' s office and ask for any document he pleases . It may be granted or it may be refused . But if he can shew that it was refused to him and granted to another , he will then have a just ground of

complaint . Before I put the motion , I will make one or two observations in reference to it . I am certainly of opinion that the paragraphs which are moved not to be admitted on the minutes , are paragraphs which do not affect the subject ; and I am distinctly of opinion that they tend to revive old sores , and refer to matters which , so far as I could understand what took place in March last , were agreed to be forgotten . . The G . M . frankly and handsomely admitted that he was not free from blameand presented for the

, adoption of the Canadian Brethren an ultimatum , which he considered a sufficient purgative of past errors and shortcomings . The G . M . having done that—not in a corner—not upstairs in his own room—but in the face of Grand Lodge and of the Craft , there can be no excuse for again referring to the errors which were so candidly acknowledged . Now I distinctly state , that paragraph No . 3 is merely a repetition of those charges which were made in March

last , and there met in a maimer most satisfactory to G . L . I can conceive no conduct more ungenerous on the part of any body of men , but especially of Masons , than to adopt a resolution which no doubt goes back to former times , and condemns former conduct . With regard to the whole of these paragraphs , I will say that they contain expressions of opinion for which we did not ask the Colonial Board . Bro . Portal says the report ought to be entered on the minutes without being adopted ; but that I consider a very puerile distinction . There it would stand whether adopted or

notrecord-, ing that certain acts which Grand Lodge passed over ought to be condemned , and that too at a period when it is well known that it is impossible to stay the hand of secession in Canada . But I am not quite so sure that the act of the Canadian brethren is entirely owing to the conduct of the Grand Lodge of England . I see it recorded that " owing to the rapidly increasing influence of the irregular Grand Lodge , as well as from other internal causes , the P . G . L . has been placed in a position of great difficulty . " Now I believe there

has been for a long time a desire among a minority of the Canadian brethren to set up an independent Grand Lodge for themselves . A small minority of them did so , and it having been recognised by the Grand Lodge of Ireland , became the nucleus of all those discontented with the Grand Lodge of England . My conviction is , that when the truth comes to be sifted , it will be found that the neglect of the Grand Lodge of England has been made the stalking horse for their throwing off their allegiance to it . But the on

paper goes still further , and in paragraph No . 5 invites us to do all in our power to allay the distrust of Grand Lodge , which exists among Canadian Masons , and to prevent the separation which it is now impossible to prevent . We are also told that the P . G L . of Canada will in due time point out to us the steps we are to take . That , however is not the position in which we stand to the P . G . L . of Canada . We have sent out to the Brethren in Canada a propositionwhich the Colonial Board admits to bo both le and

suffi-, amp cient , and to give no excuse to the Canadian brethren . Why should this proposition not be as sufficient , when received in April ' or Mav last , as if it had arrived in Canada at an earlier date ? Simply because the determination had been taken to separate , and any concession which could make them would bo unavailing to upset that determination . Therefore , Brethren , I do think that the Colonial Board , in signing this report , has gone beyond its province . I mav doubtless take a wrong view of their duty ; but I take it that the

“The Masonic Observer: 1857-09-20, Page 9” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 24 May 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mob/issues/mob_20091857/page/9/.
  • List
  • Grid
Title Category Page
Untitled Article 1
Untitled Article 1
Untitled Article 2
Untitled Article 4
Untitled Article 5
GRAND LODGE. Article 6
Untitled Article 10
Untitled Article 13
Untitled Article 13
MARK MASONRY. Article 13
Masonic Charities. Article 14
Colonial. Article 16
Reviews. Article 19
NOTES AND QUERIES. Article 19
Untitled Article 19
Untitled Article 19
Untitled Ad 19
Untitled Ad 19
Untitled Ad 20
Untitled Ad 20
Untitled Ad 20
Untitled Article 20
Untitled Ad 20
Untitled Ad 20
Untitled Ad 20
Untitled Ad 20
Untitled Article 20
Page 1

Page 1

2 Articles
Page 2

Page 2

2 Articles
Page 3

Page 3

1 Article
Page 4

Page 4

2 Articles
Page 5

Page 5

1 Article
Page 6

Page 6

1 Article
Page 7

Page 7

1 Article
Page 8

Page 8

1 Article
Page 9

Page 9

1 Article
Page 10

Page 10

2 Articles
Page 11

Page 11

1 Article
Page 12

Page 12

1 Article
Page 13

Page 13

3 Articles
Page 14

Page 14

2 Articles
Page 15

Page 15

1 Article
Page 16

Page 16

2 Articles
Page 17

Page 17

1 Article
Page 18

Page 18

1 Article
Page 19

Page 19

6 Articles
Page 20

Page 20

9 Articles
Page 9

Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Grand Lodge.

that we have not administered it during the last three years ? ( Hear , hear . ) You have , as usual , locked the door when the horse has gone , and I think you may well take the horse ' s opinion as to how he is to be got into a stable again . But it is , I repeat , hardly fair to press this matter forward , and then say that it is we who want to force a discussion upon it . We do not ask G . L . to adopt the report ; all we call upon them to do is to receive it , and enter it upon the minutes as usual ; but as Bro . Havers has raised the question of the whole report , or a part of it , I have nothing to do

but to ask you to adopt it in its entirety , for if you now shrink from giving your judgment upon the facts which are contained in the papers now before you , and which our report does nothing else but faithfully embody ; you may indeed be paying a graceful compliment to the executive , but you will go far to abdicate your own functions as a governing body . I move , my lord , as an amendment , that the whole report be adopted . W . Bro . WILKINSON seconded the amendment . W . Bro . J . HERVEYP . G . D . wished to say one word explanatory

, , of the position in which the Colonial Board at present stood . There was no member of that Board but entertained the highest respect for the G . M ., and was convinced that he was desirous to shape his course in the direction most beneficial to the order . ( Hear , hear . ) With regard to the report , he was quite sure that the worthy Bro . who drew it up did so with the conviction , that by their agreeing to it , they would confer a benefit on the Craft , and carry out the object for which they had been constituted a Board . ( Hear , hear . ) There was however in that report one point on

which he did not agree with the majority of the Board . Ho did regret that it should have stated that they were to expect their instructions from Canada ; but he did deny that it had been framed in any feeling of disrespect to Grand Lodge , or G . M ., or out of a desire of dictatorial interference with either of them . He was not quite satisfied that the constitutions did give them a power of expressing an opinion upon the matters submitted to thein , prima facie , but if that opinion was not expressed , the question might bo delayed for three , or even for six months . It would , for instance , come before the Grand Lodge on that night , and be referred back to the Colonial Board : the Board would give in their report in December , and the decision would be arrived at in March . ( Hear , hear . ) Without at all wishing that the Board should dictate to

G . L ., it would , he thought , be well that they should have the power of expressing their opinion to G . L . ( Hear , hear . ) It would then be for Grand Lodge to adopt that opinion , or not , just as it might please . The Colonial Board stood in a different position from the Board of General Purposes . If any matter for inquiry took place in any part of England , an answer to any letter sent there could be received in twenty-four hours , but if they had to write to India , to Jamaica , or to Australia , they would have to wait weeks and months before they could get a reply . He had before stated that he had

signed the report as a mere ministerial act , but although that was the case , he would say , those who drew it up were not imbued with any spirit of insubordination , but were ready to pay that respect to the G . M . to which he was so justly entitled . ( Hear , hear . ) V . W . Bro . HENDERSON , G . R ., remarked , that no one had said or thought that any member of the Colonial Board wished to treat the G . M . with disrespect . On the contrary , Bro . Havers had most guardedly and properly said , that he acquitted whoever drew up

the report from any such feeling . ( Ironical cries of hear , hear . ) The question was altogether one of discipline . The Colonial Board was completely a ministerial body , and as such was not entitled either to pronounce a decision , or to express an opinion , those being functions reserved to Grand Lodge itself . W . Bro . MASON thought the G . M . might well cry out , " Save me from my friends . " ( Hear , hear . ) There was in the report no insinuation that there was anything wanting on his part towards the restoration of harmony between the G . L . and the Canadian

Masons ; but the moment the report was read , up started a zealous Br . to talk of the G . M . ' s errors and shortcomings . ( Hear , hear . ) He could not but consider that to be a very injudicious course on the part of any friend of the G . M . ; and all there were his friends . ( Hear , hear . ) There had no doubt been shortcomings ; but as the order was founded upon the principles of brotherly love , relief , and truth , they were not , by observing one of these principles , to lose sight of the other two . They were not , because of their brotherly loveto lose sight of truth ; and they wore equally bound to afford

, relief to those who required it at their hands . But , departing from that point , lie considered that the Colonial Board required very little vindication for a determination to do their duty . The papers were sent to them by G . L . for consideration : they were referred to them surely for some purpose—it could not be for nothing ; and as men of business thev did something , and told Grand Lodge where

the mistake lay . Should they now bo blamed for doing that ? He did not believe that Grand Lodge would say , that , because they had taken that course , they had exceeded their powers . ( Hear , hear . ) The Board was constituted for the sake of saving the time of Grand Lodge ; and what was more proper than that G . L . should hear their opinions ? ( Hear , hoar . ) The proposition of Bro . Havers was , he considered , a most injudicious one , and they would do wrong to the Colonial Board if they were now hurry-scurry to reject their report . ( Hearhear . )

, W . Bro . WARREN , as a matter of order , wished to know if it was right that one Bro . ( Bro . Hervey ) should have been furnished with a copy of the report , and thus placed in a better position than the other brethren , not one of whom had a copy , and could only rely upon their memory in hearing it read . ( Hear , hear . ) The D . G . M . did not consider it at all a question of order . If the worthy Bro . had a charge to bring against any officer of the Lodge for furnishing the document in questionhe miht do sobut the

, g ; abstract question was not one of order . W . Bro . WARREN said his object was to know if he or any other Bro . might go before the opening of Grand Lodge to the Grand Secretary's office and get a copy . The D . G . M . —Clearly the worthy Bro . can go to the G . See . ' s office and ask for any document he pleases . It may be granted or it may be refused . But if he can shew that it was refused to him and granted to another , he will then have a just ground of

complaint . Before I put the motion , I will make one or two observations in reference to it . I am certainly of opinion that the paragraphs which are moved not to be admitted on the minutes , are paragraphs which do not affect the subject ; and I am distinctly of opinion that they tend to revive old sores , and refer to matters which , so far as I could understand what took place in March last , were agreed to be forgotten . . The G . M . frankly and handsomely admitted that he was not free from blameand presented for the

, adoption of the Canadian Brethren an ultimatum , which he considered a sufficient purgative of past errors and shortcomings . The G . M . having done that—not in a corner—not upstairs in his own room—but in the face of Grand Lodge and of the Craft , there can be no excuse for again referring to the errors which were so candidly acknowledged . Now I distinctly state , that paragraph No . 3 is merely a repetition of those charges which were made in March

last , and there met in a maimer most satisfactory to G . L . I can conceive no conduct more ungenerous on the part of any body of men , but especially of Masons , than to adopt a resolution which no doubt goes back to former times , and condemns former conduct . With regard to the whole of these paragraphs , I will say that they contain expressions of opinion for which we did not ask the Colonial Board . Bro . Portal says the report ought to be entered on the minutes without being adopted ; but that I consider a very puerile distinction . There it would stand whether adopted or

notrecord-, ing that certain acts which Grand Lodge passed over ought to be condemned , and that too at a period when it is well known that it is impossible to stay the hand of secession in Canada . But I am not quite so sure that the act of the Canadian brethren is entirely owing to the conduct of the Grand Lodge of England . I see it recorded that " owing to the rapidly increasing influence of the irregular Grand Lodge , as well as from other internal causes , the P . G . L . has been placed in a position of great difficulty . " Now I believe there

has been for a long time a desire among a minority of the Canadian brethren to set up an independent Grand Lodge for themselves . A small minority of them did so , and it having been recognised by the Grand Lodge of Ireland , became the nucleus of all those discontented with the Grand Lodge of England . My conviction is , that when the truth comes to be sifted , it will be found that the neglect of the Grand Lodge of England has been made the stalking horse for their throwing off their allegiance to it . But the on

paper goes still further , and in paragraph No . 5 invites us to do all in our power to allay the distrust of Grand Lodge , which exists among Canadian Masons , and to prevent the separation which it is now impossible to prevent . We are also told that the P . G L . of Canada will in due time point out to us the steps we are to take . That , however is not the position in which we stand to the P . G . L . of Canada . We have sent out to the Brethren in Canada a propositionwhich the Colonial Board admits to bo both le and

suffi-, amp cient , and to give no excuse to the Canadian brethren . Why should this proposition not be as sufficient , when received in April ' or Mav last , as if it had arrived in Canada at an earlier date ? Simply because the determination had been taken to separate , and any concession which could make them would bo unavailing to upset that determination . Therefore , Brethren , I do think that the Colonial Board , in signing this report , has gone beyond its province . I mav doubtless take a wrong view of their duty ; but I take it that the

  • Prev page
  • 1
  • 8
  • You're on page9
  • 10
  • 20
  • Next page
  • Accredited Museum Designated Outstanding Collection
  • LIBRARY AND MUSEUM CHARITABLE TRUST OF THE UNITED GRAND LODGE OF ENGLAND REGISTERED CHARITY NUMBER 1058497 / ALL RIGHTS RESERVED © 2025

  • Accessibility statement

  • Designed, developed, and maintained by King's Digital Lab

We use cookies to track usage and preferences.

Privacy & cookie policy