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  • March 20, 1859
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  • UNITED GRAND LODGE OF ENGLAND.
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The Masonic Observer, March 20, 1859: Page 5

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United Grand Lodge Of England.

that they should rescind it . He wondered if the worthy Brother would have moved that they should rescind his own resolution ? He ( Bro . Gregory ) saw no reason why Grand Lodge should stultify itself in the way proposed , by blowing both hot and cold upon the question , and placing themselves in a false position . He regretted that Bro . Portal and his friends , who objected to the confirmation of the minutes , had not waited until they heard the proposition which was about to be presented to Grand Lodge by the M . W . the Grand Master , one which , whilst , we believe , it secured the dignity

of Grand Lodge , would also conciliate the feelings of the Canadian Brethren . Not to confirm the resolution agreed to in December last , would bo indeed to throw down the apple of discord . Bro . WHITMORE wished to know where lay the larger amount of stultification , whether in refusing to confirm a resolution hastily adopted at last Grand Lodge , or in confirming the recognition of that which the Grand Lodge of Canada would not accept at their hands . Nothing could more clearly show the wisdom of the advice given them at last Grand Lodge by Bro . Lord Carnarvon , and the

advantage of delay than the present discussion . He was one of those independent members of Grand Lodge who , on that occasion , stood up and opposed precipitancy . He fully agreed with the remarks of the noble lord who seconded Bro . Portal's motion , that to confirm the resolution on the minutes would be an insult to the Canadian Masons , and it was , he thought , impossible that Grand Lodge should so far degrade itself as to recognize that which the Grand Lodge of Canada did not thank them for , and would not accept . He hoped Grand Lodge would exercise its wisdom , discretion , and

judgment , and decline to take that course . With regard to what had fallen from Bro . Portal , he ( Bro . Whitmore ) believed , that in December last , all the facts of the case were in possession of the executive , and that being the case , it was to be regretted that they had not communicated them to Grand Lodge . If it was not true , let it be stated so , and he was ready to apologise ; but if it were true , then he would advise Grand Lodge not to commit the indiscretion of confirming that upon which they resolved without a full knowledge of the real facts of the case . ( Cheers . ) Bro . SLIGHT approved of the observation of Bro . Gregory , that it would be far better to confirm the minutes at once , and wait for the discussion of this question until they heard the communication which , in accordance with the notice on the minutes of their

proceeding , the M . W . Grand Master was about to place before Grand Lodge , because it was obvious that there was among those at the other end of the room a difference of opinion as to facts . As to the real question there was no point of doubt whatever , however great the attempt might be to involve it in obscurity . The plain state of the case was this i—In December last , the M . W . Grand Master , in this room , made a motion that the Grand Lodge of Canada should be recognized . That motion was opposed , and they all knew by whom , and most of the Brethren would recollect how astonished G .

Lodge was at hearing the opposition come from such a quarter . However , notwithstanding that opposition to the motion , Grand Lodge came to the unanimous resolution , that the Grand Lodge of Canada should be recognized . That was the great fact on which they had determined . It now appeared , from some papers received from Canada , that on some points of detail , not of principle , there was a difference of some sort or other which could be easily adjusted . He therefore hoped the Brethren would confirm the resolution recognizing the Grand Lodge of Canadaalthough that

, recognition might now be opposed by those who had formerly voted for it ; and that they would not allow their minutes to bear the record that they had refused that recognition of the Grand Lodge of Canada which would be approved of by every Mason in England . ( Cheers . ) The Rev . Bro . PORTAL said in reply , that Bro . Slight seemed to impugn the truth of the statement he had read relative to the resolutions passed by the Grand Lodge of Canada . He did not choose to offer any explanation to that brother—but he considered it due

to the G . M . to state that the resolutions he had read , were verified by the signature of Bro . Harington , P . G . M ., of Canada . Bro . BINCKES admired the ingenuity , but not the moral , of those who sought to make the worse the better side . The Canadian Brethren refused to accept a limited jurisdiction for their Grand Lodge at the hands of the Grand Lodge of England ( no , no ) , and under these circumstances , he considered Bro . Portal fully justified in moving the non-confirmation of the resolution giving them that jurisdiction . They had sent to Canada wliat they considered a

boon to the Brethren there , but the billows of the Atlantic had cast it back upon them with contempt . With what show of reason , justice , or judgment could they refuse to rescind a resolution which forced upon their Brethren in Canada what they had refused to accept ? He therefore hoped that , out of a proper deference to

the feelings of the Grand Lodge of Canada , they would , when asked to confirm that resolution , unanimously answer , No ! ( Cheers and laughter . ) Bro . HAVERS said he had heard with more amazement than he could well express , the course of proceeding that evening , advocated by the Brethren at the further end of the room . He would venture to lay the whole case , divested of verbiage , before Grand Lodge . He never denied , and he would never deny , that the Masons of Canada had had to complain of grievous short-comings

upon the part of Grand Lodge ; but he would not now stop to enquire where lay the blame . The result however , was , that their Canadian Brethren felt themselves compelled to throw down their allegiance to the Grand Lodge of England . In that country , where we had once nearly 100 Lodges , the great majority of them had left our banner . This change naturally created some excitement , but so soon as union was restored in Canada , the Grand Lodge of England acknowledged and recognized the independence of the Grand Lodgeof that country . It was nowattempted to be shownthat the

, Canadian Brethren refused that recognition . On the contrary , they accepted it , and thanked Grand Lodge for the promptitude it had displayed in making it . If the Brethren had been content to wait —to spare their taunts upon the Executive—until they had heard the correspondence , and looked at . the dates of that correspondence , they would have seen that such was the case . In that correspondence , they pointed to the fact that Grand Lodge had limited their jurisdiction . Grand Lodge had done so , and had done it with its eyes open . The Canadian Brethren now asked Grand Lodge for what

Grand Lodge was most willing to grant , namely—to give the greatest possible opportunity for the spread of Freemasonry . They all now understood that the jurisdiction which the Grand Lodge of Canada claimed , was one extending over both provinces , and it was reasonable that it should have it . Out of the hundred Lodges of Canada , which formerly hailed from the Grand Lodge of England , there wore only two ( not six ) in Canada West , and only four ( not twelve ) in Canada East , which now acknowledged the authority of the Grand Lodge of England . The two provinces , formerly divided , had been united since 1843 , and were now one territory . It was for these reasons that the Masons of Canada asked the Grand Lodge of England to grant to their'Grand Lodge , JIasonic jurisdiction over all that country in which there were now so few English

Lodges . He would now ask the Brethren if they thought it consistent with the dignity and honour of Grand Lodge , to maintain a nomina \ sovereignty over a territory in which it had no Lodges . They were all anxious , for the welfare of Masonry , to see new temples rise for solemnization of its mysteries , its principles spread , and never to limit it to the narrow ground under the jurisdiction of any particular Grand Lodge . Canada had spoken , and spoken with a loud voice , upon this question ; and within the last four-and-twenty hours , a most courteous and fraternal letter had been received by

M . W . Grand Master from the Grand Master of Canada , asking Grand Lodge to re-consider this question . If Bro . Portal had only allowed the M . W . Grand Master to state—that in that kindness of feeling by which he was actuated to our Colonial Brethren , he was prepared to remedy whatever error of description they had fallen into at the last meeting of Grand Lodge , and grant the independent Grand Lodge of Canada a jurisdiction co-extensivo with the Canadian territory—the Brethren would have been spared all the useless discussion which had taken place . ( Cheers ) .

Bro . HEARXE here remarked that the M . W . Grand Master had that night ruled , that no part of the minutes could be separately confirmed or rejected ; and was proceeding to found some argument upon the rule , when the M . W . Grand Master interposed and said , he had never laid down any such rule . If he had not been understood , he was perfectly willing to state his opinion over again . ( No , no ) . After a few words of explanation from Bro . Rev . G . R . PORTAL , in which he stated his information was founded on a communication

containing the resolutions passed at a meeting of the Grand Lodge of Canada , signed by Bro . Harington , P . Prov . G . M . for Quebec , the M . W . Grand . Master put the amendment of liro . Portal to the vote , and declared it lost by a large majority—an announcement which was received with loud cheers . Bro . WHITMORE then moved another amendment to the effect that the resolutions , referring back the report of the Board of General Purposes upon tavern accommodation , and allowing them to expend £ 800 in prizes for plans and other expenses for the proposed

arrangements should not be confirmed He was willing to admit that , as a general rule it was not expedient to interfere with the confirmation of resolutions which had been fully deliberated upon , but there were occasions , and that was one of them , when it might be desirable for Grand Lodge to re-consider its determination .

“The Masonic Observer: 1859-03-20, Page 5” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 15 May 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mob/issues/mob_20031859/page/5/.
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Title Category Page
Untitled Article 1
Untitled Article 1
Untitled Article 2
Untitled Article 3
Untitled Article 3
UNITED GRAND LODGE OF ENGLAND. Article 4
THE GRAND LODGE PROPERTY. Article 10
AUSTRALIA. Article 11
Colonial. Article 11
Mark Masonry. Article 14
Masonic Charities. Article 15
Provincial. Article 15
ADDRESS Article 18
REPLY. Article 18
GRAND LODGE CLUB. Article 19
THE FREEMASONS' MAGAZINE AND THE EXECUTIVE. Article 19
LODGE OF BENEVOLENCE. Article 19
Correspondence. Article 20
Untitled Ad 20
Untitled Article 20
Untitled Article 20
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

United Grand Lodge Of England.

that they should rescind it . He wondered if the worthy Brother would have moved that they should rescind his own resolution ? He ( Bro . Gregory ) saw no reason why Grand Lodge should stultify itself in the way proposed , by blowing both hot and cold upon the question , and placing themselves in a false position . He regretted that Bro . Portal and his friends , who objected to the confirmation of the minutes , had not waited until they heard the proposition which was about to be presented to Grand Lodge by the M . W . the Grand Master , one which , whilst , we believe , it secured the dignity

of Grand Lodge , would also conciliate the feelings of the Canadian Brethren . Not to confirm the resolution agreed to in December last , would bo indeed to throw down the apple of discord . Bro . WHITMORE wished to know where lay the larger amount of stultification , whether in refusing to confirm a resolution hastily adopted at last Grand Lodge , or in confirming the recognition of that which the Grand Lodge of Canada would not accept at their hands . Nothing could more clearly show the wisdom of the advice given them at last Grand Lodge by Bro . Lord Carnarvon , and the

advantage of delay than the present discussion . He was one of those independent members of Grand Lodge who , on that occasion , stood up and opposed precipitancy . He fully agreed with the remarks of the noble lord who seconded Bro . Portal's motion , that to confirm the resolution on the minutes would be an insult to the Canadian Masons , and it was , he thought , impossible that Grand Lodge should so far degrade itself as to recognize that which the Grand Lodge of Canada did not thank them for , and would not accept . He hoped Grand Lodge would exercise its wisdom , discretion , and

judgment , and decline to take that course . With regard to what had fallen from Bro . Portal , he ( Bro . Whitmore ) believed , that in December last , all the facts of the case were in possession of the executive , and that being the case , it was to be regretted that they had not communicated them to Grand Lodge . If it was not true , let it be stated so , and he was ready to apologise ; but if it were true , then he would advise Grand Lodge not to commit the indiscretion of confirming that upon which they resolved without a full knowledge of the real facts of the case . ( Cheers . ) Bro . SLIGHT approved of the observation of Bro . Gregory , that it would be far better to confirm the minutes at once , and wait for the discussion of this question until they heard the communication which , in accordance with the notice on the minutes of their

proceeding , the M . W . Grand Master was about to place before Grand Lodge , because it was obvious that there was among those at the other end of the room a difference of opinion as to facts . As to the real question there was no point of doubt whatever , however great the attempt might be to involve it in obscurity . The plain state of the case was this i—In December last , the M . W . Grand Master , in this room , made a motion that the Grand Lodge of Canada should be recognized . That motion was opposed , and they all knew by whom , and most of the Brethren would recollect how astonished G .

Lodge was at hearing the opposition come from such a quarter . However , notwithstanding that opposition to the motion , Grand Lodge came to the unanimous resolution , that the Grand Lodge of Canada should be recognized . That was the great fact on which they had determined . It now appeared , from some papers received from Canada , that on some points of detail , not of principle , there was a difference of some sort or other which could be easily adjusted . He therefore hoped the Brethren would confirm the resolution recognizing the Grand Lodge of Canadaalthough that

, recognition might now be opposed by those who had formerly voted for it ; and that they would not allow their minutes to bear the record that they had refused that recognition of the Grand Lodge of Canada which would be approved of by every Mason in England . ( Cheers . ) The Rev . Bro . PORTAL said in reply , that Bro . Slight seemed to impugn the truth of the statement he had read relative to the resolutions passed by the Grand Lodge of Canada . He did not choose to offer any explanation to that brother—but he considered it due

to the G . M . to state that the resolutions he had read , were verified by the signature of Bro . Harington , P . G . M ., of Canada . Bro . BINCKES admired the ingenuity , but not the moral , of those who sought to make the worse the better side . The Canadian Brethren refused to accept a limited jurisdiction for their Grand Lodge at the hands of the Grand Lodge of England ( no , no ) , and under these circumstances , he considered Bro . Portal fully justified in moving the non-confirmation of the resolution giving them that jurisdiction . They had sent to Canada wliat they considered a

boon to the Brethren there , but the billows of the Atlantic had cast it back upon them with contempt . With what show of reason , justice , or judgment could they refuse to rescind a resolution which forced upon their Brethren in Canada what they had refused to accept ? He therefore hoped that , out of a proper deference to

the feelings of the Grand Lodge of Canada , they would , when asked to confirm that resolution , unanimously answer , No ! ( Cheers and laughter . ) Bro . HAVERS said he had heard with more amazement than he could well express , the course of proceeding that evening , advocated by the Brethren at the further end of the room . He would venture to lay the whole case , divested of verbiage , before Grand Lodge . He never denied , and he would never deny , that the Masons of Canada had had to complain of grievous short-comings

upon the part of Grand Lodge ; but he would not now stop to enquire where lay the blame . The result however , was , that their Canadian Brethren felt themselves compelled to throw down their allegiance to the Grand Lodge of England . In that country , where we had once nearly 100 Lodges , the great majority of them had left our banner . This change naturally created some excitement , but so soon as union was restored in Canada , the Grand Lodge of England acknowledged and recognized the independence of the Grand Lodgeof that country . It was nowattempted to be shownthat the

, Canadian Brethren refused that recognition . On the contrary , they accepted it , and thanked Grand Lodge for the promptitude it had displayed in making it . If the Brethren had been content to wait —to spare their taunts upon the Executive—until they had heard the correspondence , and looked at . the dates of that correspondence , they would have seen that such was the case . In that correspondence , they pointed to the fact that Grand Lodge had limited their jurisdiction . Grand Lodge had done so , and had done it with its eyes open . The Canadian Brethren now asked Grand Lodge for what

Grand Lodge was most willing to grant , namely—to give the greatest possible opportunity for the spread of Freemasonry . They all now understood that the jurisdiction which the Grand Lodge of Canada claimed , was one extending over both provinces , and it was reasonable that it should have it . Out of the hundred Lodges of Canada , which formerly hailed from the Grand Lodge of England , there wore only two ( not six ) in Canada West , and only four ( not twelve ) in Canada East , which now acknowledged the authority of the Grand Lodge of England . The two provinces , formerly divided , had been united since 1843 , and were now one territory . It was for these reasons that the Masons of Canada asked the Grand Lodge of England to grant to their'Grand Lodge , JIasonic jurisdiction over all that country in which there were now so few English

Lodges . He would now ask the Brethren if they thought it consistent with the dignity and honour of Grand Lodge , to maintain a nomina \ sovereignty over a territory in which it had no Lodges . They were all anxious , for the welfare of Masonry , to see new temples rise for solemnization of its mysteries , its principles spread , and never to limit it to the narrow ground under the jurisdiction of any particular Grand Lodge . Canada had spoken , and spoken with a loud voice , upon this question ; and within the last four-and-twenty hours , a most courteous and fraternal letter had been received by

M . W . Grand Master from the Grand Master of Canada , asking Grand Lodge to re-consider this question . If Bro . Portal had only allowed the M . W . Grand Master to state—that in that kindness of feeling by which he was actuated to our Colonial Brethren , he was prepared to remedy whatever error of description they had fallen into at the last meeting of Grand Lodge , and grant the independent Grand Lodge of Canada a jurisdiction co-extensivo with the Canadian territory—the Brethren would have been spared all the useless discussion which had taken place . ( Cheers ) .

Bro . HEARXE here remarked that the M . W . Grand Master had that night ruled , that no part of the minutes could be separately confirmed or rejected ; and was proceeding to found some argument upon the rule , when the M . W . Grand Master interposed and said , he had never laid down any such rule . If he had not been understood , he was perfectly willing to state his opinion over again . ( No , no ) . After a few words of explanation from Bro . Rev . G . R . PORTAL , in which he stated his information was founded on a communication

containing the resolutions passed at a meeting of the Grand Lodge of Canada , signed by Bro . Harington , P . Prov . G . M . for Quebec , the M . W . Grand . Master put the amendment of liro . Portal to the vote , and declared it lost by a large majority—an announcement which was received with loud cheers . Bro . WHITMORE then moved another amendment to the effect that the resolutions , referring back the report of the Board of General Purposes upon tavern accommodation , and allowing them to expend £ 800 in prizes for plans and other expenses for the proposed

arrangements should not be confirmed He was willing to admit that , as a general rule it was not expedient to interfere with the confirmation of resolutions which had been fully deliberated upon , but there were occasions , and that was one of them , when it might be desirable for Grand Lodge to re-consider its determination .

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