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  • July 30, 1859
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, July 30, 1859: Page 15

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    Article PROVINCIAL. ← Page 2 of 5 →
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Provincial.

The effect of this ivould be , to adopt the larger number , thirty-one , on the committee ; not only having the AY . AI . as a charity member , but also appointing ; i delegate from each Lodge . A Brother , whose uame our correspondent could not catch , seconded the resolution . Bro . Beach , Prov . S . G . W ., said , for the purpose of arriving at a practical decision on the question , he ivould move as un amendment that Hie smaller uuinber be adopted in forming the committee . The smaller

number , he considered , would be found the most practical and efficient in ivorking , and were the much easier to be got together . Bro . 0 . Sherry , P . M ., No . t ) 0 , seconded the amendment of Bro . Beach . Bro . G . M . Passenger , S . AV ., No . 152 , called attention to the fact that , after much discussion , the motion at the Lodge of Emergency ivas unanimously carried . He believed it was a mistake to suppose that the best committee could begot from the smaller number of brethren . They would seldom got the atteudauee of more than fourteen or sixteen , and

that would not be found more than enough . Bro . H . Abraham observed that it was only surmise Avhen the number of the committee was reckoned as thirty-one ; because out of the fourteen names as last agreed to be added , some would be AV . Masters already nominated ; so that the real number would bo reduced to twenty . Bro . Deacon offered a few remarks , in the course of which he said his experience told him that small committees Avorked better than large ones . The amendment having been formally read by Bro . Stebbing , as

follows , — " That the minutes relating to the charities , at both meetings , be rescinded , and that the appointment of a charity steward from each Lodge , as suggested iu the last resolution , do constitute the charity committee , together with the Prov . Grand Master , Deputy Grand Chaplain , Grand Treasurer , and Grand Secretary . " ( Bro . Beach remarked that he merely moved ifc to provoke a discussion ) . Bro . Ford spoke iu reply . He said at the last meeting of the Grand Lodgo at AViuchcster , after a considerable period spent in discussion , and

carefully directing their minds to tho subject , they had arrived at a resolution expressing ifc to be a desirable thing that the charities committee should consist not only of the principal officers of the province , but the Masters and also a delegate , so that each Lodge should have two representatives on such committee . He only wished brethen to understand that at the last Grand Loclge that was the opinion come to after much consideration . He ventured to say that that day there hud not been made a single observation militating against the propriety or the

prudence of the resolution so agreed to . Ho hoped ancl trusted that Grand Lodge would not now alter that decision . In fact , nothing had been said scarcely requiring an observation from him , in reply , and as he thought nothing had been advanced calculated to induce the brethren to alter their decision , he would conclude by expressing a hope that they would hesitate before they did so . Tlie R . AV . Prov . Grand Master having put the question , there appeared on a division to be twenty-three for the motion , and ten against it . The resolution of the Loclge of Emergency was therefore confirmed . A large number of brethren did not vote at all .

GIUND LODGE AXD IDE PROVINCES . Bro . Ford , AV . M . No . 301 , and mayor of Portsmouth , saicl he ivished to make a proposition to Grand Loclge , but in consideration of . the great heat of the clay , and the probable anxiety of all to adjourn to another place , he would not detain them with any lengthened observations . His wish was neither to provoke a long discussion nor to give rise to any acrimonious feeling , but he knew there existed considerable dissatisfaction as to the representation of the provincial Lodges in the Grand Lodge at London , and he much wished something could be devised to place matters on a better footing . The R . AV . Prov . Grand Master : AVe cannot interfere with the appointments of the Grand Master .

Bro . Ford continued : If , Right AVorshipful sir , you think that is intended , 1 fear you do not exactl y understand ivhat my motion is . Me ( Bro . Ford ) did not in the least way propose to interfere with the junctions or privileges of any of the Grand Officers of England or the 1 rovmccs . The fact was , there existed a growing desire in that province that the country members should have some better representation in Grand Lodge . To give effect to that ivish he did not see thafc it was necessary to trespass upon any of the rights of the Most AVorshipful Grand MasterSuch ivould bo uumasonic

. a thing , and he should shrink trom it . The resolution he wished to have put ivas as follows : —' That a committee of this Prov . Grand Loclge be appointed to consider and report to a future meeting as to the best mode of improving the representation ofthe provinces iu the Grand Lodge of England . " He would most respectfully represent that this resolution did not interfere or trespass upon tho privileges of the Grand Master . On the contrary , if such a suggestion ivere adopted , all little feelings of unpleasantness would vanish , and things would besides be placed upon their proper footing . The R . AV . Prov . Grand Master said ho did not think he could receive the resolution .

_ Bro . Stebbing , addressing the Lodge , said , he bogged to submit that a similar course to that now asked tor hacl just been adopted in respect to the subject of charities , and that on a point of Order , the R . AV . Master ivas justified in receiving the motion of the AVorshipful brother Jl he thought fit . One of the objects of that motion would doubtless oe to suggest ( . ] , „( , a 3 ,, .,. y member of Grand Lodge ivas entitled to

attend quarterly communications , the notices noiv sent only to the Masters of Lodges a few days before the meeting , should be sent , ivith particulars , of business to bo done , direct to every brother so entitled to attend ; and then , ho ivould euguge to say thafc one hundred and fifty members of Grand Lodge , from that aud a neighbouring province of ivhich few noiv saw a notice , would regularly attend , and thafc great Masonic senate would not then be practically the Grand Lodge of London alone , as it now was , but of the provinces also ; and he might

add , that from the great talent aud energy existing amongst Masons iu the provinces , great good would eome of their more frequent association in Grand Loclge . The motion , also , might very properly be proposed in that province where no discord had ever existed , and where nothing unseemly ever occurred . ( Loud cries of hear , hear ) . He sincerely hoped the R . AA ' . Prov . Grand Master would alloiv the proposition to be submitted to the meeting , and he was convinced that the report of such a , committee would be invaluableand thafc Grand Lodge would be unanimous in

, passing the proposition . ( Loud cheering . ) Bro . the Rev . G . R . Portal , Prov . G . Chaplain , said , he felt it to be due to his office to lay before the R . AV . M . and the Lodge his reasons why the motion should be heard . The time hacl come ivhen brethren must speak out . AVe know ( said the rev . brother , addressing the chair ) that you , Right AVorshipful sir , are no party man , and that you hold the balance equally between the highest and fche lowest ; but the fact is , a great

number of provincial Masons are not satisfied with the share they havo in the transaction of business in Grand Lodge . I took the trouble to ascertain on one occasion the atteudauee of London and provincial brethren , when there ivere forty-six only from the provinces , aud two hundred and fifty London brethren present . The small attendance of the provincial brethren did not arise from any AA-anfc of interest in the proceedings ; but the distance from London and the want of personal notice of the intended business of Grand Lodge , aucl other difficulties

intervened . All that is now wanted is , to appoint a committee to make suggestions for some improvement in the arrangements . Perhaps it will be suggested to pay members from private funds , so as to ensure tlieir attending Grand . Lodge , and taking parfc in business affairs . It AA'ill be

for the R . AA . Prov , Grand Master to say , when tbe committee have drawn up their report , whether it was proper or not ; therefore , I trust the motion will not be refused . Though you , Right AVorshipful sir , may disapprove of the scheme , still ive may lay our heads together for improvement-. Bro . Deacon , D . Prov . G . M ., saicl their proceedings had hitherto been marked by perfect unanimity , and as this motion might possibly interrupt the samehe did not ivish to see it introduced . The AVorshipful

, Master , the two AA'ardens , and the Past Masters ivere all members of Grand Loclge , and if they did not attend it ivas tlieir own fault . If members had uo funds for necessary expenses , Jet their Lodge provide such for fchem . He hoped brethren would not adopt Bro . Ford's suggestion , and he was inclined fco think that Bro . Ford himself had nofc fully considered the . bearing of the motion he held iu his hands . Bro . Ford s . iicl he ivas sure the brother ivho last spoke hacl no grounds

for imputing to him hasty or ill considered motives . He quite adhered to the words and the full import of the motion he had introduced ; and he again most respectfully asked the R . AV . Prov . Grand Master to take ifc into his consideration . He begged most distinctly to deprecate in the most powerful Avords , any improper intention , or any ivish to bring about discord iu auy ivay whatever . ( Hear . ) Tho R . AV . Prov . G . M . observed that the AV . Ms ., the AA ardeus , and

the P . Ms of all Lodges ivere members of Grand Loclge aud expected to attend . If it was required , aucl Lodges thought proper to remunerate certain brethren for giving their attendance at Grand Lodge , he did not know anything iu the Book of Constitutions to prevent their so doing , as long as they paid up their dues to Grand Lodge . If Lodges sent representatives and remunerated them , they would then have that power in tlieir OAVII hands Avhich they HOAV complained of not possessing . Ho thought that the question having reference to the attendance of tho

AV . Ms . and AVardens in Grand Lodge ought rather to be brought before private Lodges than the Provinci . il Grand Loclge , and therefore he could uot receive the resolution . Bro . Stebbing and others then expressed their readiness to submit to the direction ofthe R . AV . Prov . Grand Master , ancl the subject dropped .

HANDSOME TUSTHKOTUI' ,. Bro . A . Fletcher , AY . M . of No . 4 G 2 , here rose , and addressing the chair , said , —Right AVorshipful sir , by your kind permission it has to day been assigned to me , as a most pleasing duty , to make this presentation , and although it might have been more effectually performed by others ivho , for a longer period than myself , have had the pleasure of the accpiaiivtiuico and friendship of tho worthy brother to whom we wish to clo honour ,

yet no one more highly appreciates his excellence than I do . His valuable services have at all times been cheerfully and ably rendered for the good of our noble and glorious institution , an institution venerable for its antiquity , sacred in its character , and benevolent in its purposes . In compliance with the request of the officers and brethren of the Lodge of Peace and Harmony , I have now the honour , in the capacity of W . M . of that Lodge , of presenting to our worthy Bro . Stebbing , P . M ., a testimonial from them . Then , addressing himself to Bro . Stebbing . Bro . Fletcher said : — llro . Stebbing , — I am commissioned by tho brethren of the

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1859-07-30, Page 15” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 15 May 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_30071859/page/15/.
  • List
  • Grid
Title Category Page
CLASSICAL THEOLOGY. APOLLO AND MAY. Article 1
BIRTH OF THE STEAM ENGINE. Article 2
OPERATIVE MASONRY AND FREEMASONRY. Article 4
UNIFORMITY OF WORKING. Article 6
REVIEWS OF NEW BOOKS. Article 7
NEW MUSIC. Article 9
Poetry. Article 9
IZAAK WALTON. Article 9
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. Article 10
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 11
THE MASONIC MIRROR. Article 13
METROPOLITAN. Article 13
PROVINCIAL. Article 14
ROYAL ARCH. Article 18
AMERICA. Article 18
THE WEEK. Article 19
PUBLIC AMUSEMENTS. Article 20
TO CORRESPONDENTS. Article 20
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Provincial.

The effect of this ivould be , to adopt the larger number , thirty-one , on the committee ; not only having the AY . AI . as a charity member , but also appointing ; i delegate from each Lodge . A Brother , whose uame our correspondent could not catch , seconded the resolution . Bro . Beach , Prov . S . G . W ., said , for the purpose of arriving at a practical decision on the question , he ivould move as un amendment that Hie smaller uuinber be adopted in forming the committee . The smaller

number , he considered , would be found the most practical and efficient in ivorking , and were the much easier to be got together . Bro . 0 . Sherry , P . M ., No . t ) 0 , seconded the amendment of Bro . Beach . Bro . G . M . Passenger , S . AV ., No . 152 , called attention to the fact that , after much discussion , the motion at the Lodge of Emergency ivas unanimously carried . He believed it was a mistake to suppose that the best committee could begot from the smaller number of brethren . They would seldom got the atteudauee of more than fourteen or sixteen , and

that would not be found more than enough . Bro . H . Abraham observed that it was only surmise Avhen the number of the committee was reckoned as thirty-one ; because out of the fourteen names as last agreed to be added , some would be AV . Masters already nominated ; so that the real number would bo reduced to twenty . Bro . Deacon offered a few remarks , in the course of which he said his experience told him that small committees Avorked better than large ones . The amendment having been formally read by Bro . Stebbing , as

follows , — " That the minutes relating to the charities , at both meetings , be rescinded , and that the appointment of a charity steward from each Lodge , as suggested iu the last resolution , do constitute the charity committee , together with the Prov . Grand Master , Deputy Grand Chaplain , Grand Treasurer , and Grand Secretary . " ( Bro . Beach remarked that he merely moved ifc to provoke a discussion ) . Bro . Ford spoke iu reply . He said at the last meeting of the Grand Lodgo at AViuchcster , after a considerable period spent in discussion , and

carefully directing their minds to tho subject , they had arrived at a resolution expressing ifc to be a desirable thing that the charities committee should consist not only of the principal officers of the province , but the Masters and also a delegate , so that each Lodge should have two representatives on such committee . He only wished brethen to understand that at the last Grand Loclge that was the opinion come to after much consideration . He ventured to say that that day there hud not been made a single observation militating against the propriety or the

prudence of the resolution so agreed to . Ho hoped ancl trusted that Grand Lodge would not now alter that decision . In fact , nothing had been said scarcely requiring an observation from him , in reply , and as he thought nothing had been advanced calculated to induce the brethren to alter their decision , he would conclude by expressing a hope that they would hesitate before they did so . Tlie R . AV . Prov . Grand Master having put the question , there appeared on a division to be twenty-three for the motion , and ten against it . The resolution of the Loclge of Emergency was therefore confirmed . A large number of brethren did not vote at all .

GIUND LODGE AXD IDE PROVINCES . Bro . Ford , AV . M . No . 301 , and mayor of Portsmouth , saicl he ivished to make a proposition to Grand Loclge , but in consideration of . the great heat of the clay , and the probable anxiety of all to adjourn to another place , he would not detain them with any lengthened observations . His wish was neither to provoke a long discussion nor to give rise to any acrimonious feeling , but he knew there existed considerable dissatisfaction as to the representation of the provincial Lodges in the Grand Lodge at London , and he much wished something could be devised to place matters on a better footing . The R . AV . Prov . Grand Master : AVe cannot interfere with the appointments of the Grand Master .

Bro . Ford continued : If , Right AVorshipful sir , you think that is intended , 1 fear you do not exactl y understand ivhat my motion is . Me ( Bro . Ford ) did not in the least way propose to interfere with the junctions or privileges of any of the Grand Officers of England or the 1 rovmccs . The fact was , there existed a growing desire in that province that the country members should have some better representation in Grand Lodge . To give effect to that ivish he did not see thafc it was necessary to trespass upon any of the rights of the Most AVorshipful Grand MasterSuch ivould bo uumasonic

. a thing , and he should shrink trom it . The resolution he wished to have put ivas as follows : —' That a committee of this Prov . Grand Loclge be appointed to consider and report to a future meeting as to the best mode of improving the representation ofthe provinces iu the Grand Lodge of England . " He would most respectfully represent that this resolution did not interfere or trespass upon tho privileges of the Grand Master . On the contrary , if such a suggestion ivere adopted , all little feelings of unpleasantness would vanish , and things would besides be placed upon their proper footing . The R . AV . Prov . Grand Master said ho did not think he could receive the resolution .

_ Bro . Stebbing , addressing the Lodge , said , he bogged to submit that a similar course to that now asked tor hacl just been adopted in respect to the subject of charities , and that on a point of Order , the R . AV . Master ivas justified in receiving the motion of the AVorshipful brother Jl he thought fit . One of the objects of that motion would doubtless oe to suggest ( . ] , „( , a 3 ,, .,. y member of Grand Lodge ivas entitled to

attend quarterly communications , the notices noiv sent only to the Masters of Lodges a few days before the meeting , should be sent , ivith particulars , of business to bo done , direct to every brother so entitled to attend ; and then , ho ivould euguge to say thafc one hundred and fifty members of Grand Lodge , from that aud a neighbouring province of ivhich few noiv saw a notice , would regularly attend , and thafc great Masonic senate would not then be practically the Grand Lodge of London alone , as it now was , but of the provinces also ; and he might

add , that from the great talent aud energy existing amongst Masons iu the provinces , great good would eome of their more frequent association in Grand Loclge . The motion , also , might very properly be proposed in that province where no discord had ever existed , and where nothing unseemly ever occurred . ( Loud cries of hear , hear ) . He sincerely hoped the R . AA ' . Prov . Grand Master would alloiv the proposition to be submitted to the meeting , and he was convinced that the report of such a , committee would be invaluableand thafc Grand Lodge would be unanimous in

, passing the proposition . ( Loud cheering . ) Bro . the Rev . G . R . Portal , Prov . G . Chaplain , said , he felt it to be due to his office to lay before the R . AV . M . and the Lodge his reasons why the motion should be heard . The time hacl come ivhen brethren must speak out . AVe know ( said the rev . brother , addressing the chair ) that you , Right AVorshipful sir , are no party man , and that you hold the balance equally between the highest and fche lowest ; but the fact is , a great

number of provincial Masons are not satisfied with the share they havo in the transaction of business in Grand Lodge . I took the trouble to ascertain on one occasion the atteudauee of London and provincial brethren , when there ivere forty-six only from the provinces , aud two hundred and fifty London brethren present . The small attendance of the provincial brethren did not arise from any AA-anfc of interest in the proceedings ; but the distance from London and the want of personal notice of the intended business of Grand Lodge , aucl other difficulties

intervened . All that is now wanted is , to appoint a committee to make suggestions for some improvement in the arrangements . Perhaps it will be suggested to pay members from private funds , so as to ensure tlieir attending Grand . Lodge , and taking parfc in business affairs . It AA'ill be

for the R . AA . Prov , Grand Master to say , when tbe committee have drawn up their report , whether it was proper or not ; therefore , I trust the motion will not be refused . Though you , Right AVorshipful sir , may disapprove of the scheme , still ive may lay our heads together for improvement-. Bro . Deacon , D . Prov . G . M ., saicl their proceedings had hitherto been marked by perfect unanimity , and as this motion might possibly interrupt the samehe did not ivish to see it introduced . The AVorshipful

, Master , the two AA'ardens , and the Past Masters ivere all members of Grand Loclge , and if they did not attend it ivas tlieir own fault . If members had uo funds for necessary expenses , Jet their Lodge provide such for fchem . He hoped brethren would not adopt Bro . Ford's suggestion , and he was inclined fco think that Bro . Ford himself had nofc fully considered the . bearing of the motion he held iu his hands . Bro . Ford s . iicl he ivas sure the brother ivho last spoke hacl no grounds

for imputing to him hasty or ill considered motives . He quite adhered to the words and the full import of the motion he had introduced ; and he again most respectfully asked the R . AV . Prov . Grand Master to take ifc into his consideration . He begged most distinctly to deprecate in the most powerful Avords , any improper intention , or any ivish to bring about discord iu auy ivay whatever . ( Hear . ) Tho R . AV . Prov . G . M . observed that the AV . Ms ., the AA ardeus , and

the P . Ms of all Lodges ivere members of Grand Loclge aud expected to attend . If it was required , aucl Lodges thought proper to remunerate certain brethren for giving their attendance at Grand Lodge , he did not know anything iu the Book of Constitutions to prevent their so doing , as long as they paid up their dues to Grand Lodge . If Lodges sent representatives and remunerated them , they would then have that power in tlieir OAVII hands Avhich they HOAV complained of not possessing . Ho thought that the question having reference to the attendance of tho

AV . Ms . and AVardens in Grand Lodge ought rather to be brought before private Lodges than the Provinci . il Grand Loclge , and therefore he could uot receive the resolution . Bro . Stebbing and others then expressed their readiness to submit to the direction ofthe R . AV . Prov . Grand Master , ancl the subject dropped .

HANDSOME TUSTHKOTUI' ,. Bro . A . Fletcher , AY . M . of No . 4 G 2 , here rose , and addressing the chair , said , —Right AVorshipful sir , by your kind permission it has to day been assigned to me , as a most pleasing duty , to make this presentation , and although it might have been more effectually performed by others ivho , for a longer period than myself , have had the pleasure of the accpiaiivtiuico and friendship of tho worthy brother to whom we wish to clo honour ,

yet no one more highly appreciates his excellence than I do . His valuable services have at all times been cheerfully and ably rendered for the good of our noble and glorious institution , an institution venerable for its antiquity , sacred in its character , and benevolent in its purposes . In compliance with the request of the officers and brethren of the Lodge of Peace and Harmony , I have now the honour , in the capacity of W . M . of that Lodge , of presenting to our worthy Bro . Stebbing , P . M ., a testimonial from them . Then , addressing himself to Bro . Stebbing . Bro . Fletcher said : — llro . Stebbing , — I am commissioned by tho brethren of the

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