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  • The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine
  • Jan. 25, 1868
  • Page 9
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, Jan. 25, 1868: Page 9

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Page 9

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the applicant stated he is or was a member , asking the lodge to refund the amount given by him to one of its members . 11 it do so , well ; if it did not , not give any satisfactory reason why it declined , then let the name and number of the lodge so neglecting be sent through the provinces . My letter to thee is already too lengthy . In

conelusion , I feel certain that if these plans were tried the " worthy" would be more generously dealt with , and the " unworthy" would cease , and that thy society would be a great gainer . I remain , thy sincere friend , A QUAKED .

Lodge Of Glasgow St. John.

LODGE OF GLASGOW ST . JOHN .

TO THE EDITOB OP THE EBEEHASOXS' _ tACAZI _ fE A .. D -JASOXIC HIREOB , Dear Sir and Brother , —In your last number I read with pleasure the very graphic report , by your representative , of the yearly Festival of the Lodge of G-lasgow St . John No . 3 lis . But I perceive by his prefatory remarks that he is rather sceptical of our ability to prove it to be the SlOfch anniversary of our

lodge , so with your kind permission I would desire to make a few remarks thereanent . On reading the History of England , about A . D . 1222 , the following passage occurs : — "It is related that when the Royal Commissioners presented themselves to Earl Warenne , and required to see the titles

of his estates , the earl unsheathed his sword , and stretched it out before them . ' This , ' said he , ' is the instrument by which I hold my lands , and by it ; I mean to defend them . ' " So in like manner would the Brethren of St . John ' s do—r ever on tly folding out our musty old parchmentthat grand old charter

, , which is worthy to be framed in gold . This , say we , is our title to be ranked as the first lodge in Scotland , and by it we mean to support it . Too long has the anomalous position of No . 3 his been held by our lodge , and although our brethren of the east by their

might have thus punished our lodge for holding back from the Grand Lodge of Scotland at its formation , yet we trust that ri ght will ultimately carry the day , and the Lodge of G-lasgow St . John be placed on the roll in its Adamite position as the father of all . Our charter , granted by Malcolm III ., A . D . 1057 , was sustained in the Court of Sessionsome time ago

, , as a genuine charter , in a question of privilege , ancl the case decided in favour of the incorporation , principally on the evidence it afforded . The fact , also , of our number being 3 i- shows that there is something extraordinary about our lodge . We are neither 8 nor -1 but 3 hisa position which

, , no other lodge that I know of holds but itself , that being , however , the best that could be got for it from those in power , when it joined the Grand Lodge . For as the then Grand Clerk , Bro . J . Linning Woodman , said , in 1850 , " Whatever may be done by the old lodge hereafter , I would not recommend farther

agitation at present . " So the then brethren of St . John ' s accepted of No . 3 his . Your representative is rather satirical about " the lodge of free and accepted or speculative masons announcing that in the year 1 S 67 she held her 810 th anniversary . " Now we assert no such thing , what we assert being that we are the descendants of the Glasgow St .

Lodge Of Glasgow St. John.

John ' s Lodge of Practical Freemasons ( or , as the charter styles it , the St . John ' s Lodge of Free Incorporate Masons ) , which was chartered in 1057 , and which , to suit the age , became disjoined from the Glasgow Incorporation of Masons , and lately joined the Grand Lodge of Scotland . The St . John ' s Lodge isto be now and from henceforth a lodge of free and

accepted or speculative Masons , under the government of the Grand Lodge of Scotland , while the Incorporation of Masons still exists as a separate body , its use now , I believe , being to act as a charitable institution in behoof of decayed members , & c . The Lodge of Glasgow St . . John No . 3 his still numbers

, however , amongst its members brethren who are also members of the Incorporation . In 1851 the office of R . W . M . was held by Bro . David Mauwell , who was also at the same time Deacon of the Incorporation ; and I am happy to add that while our cathedral was the occasion of the founding of St . John ' swhen

, Glasgow ivas " unco sma ' , " we still'have in our lodge the same good practical masonry , for the aforesaid Bro . Mauwell is the builder of the last great work whicli marks the progress of our city , viz ., our new Harbour Dock . He was also one of the contractors

for the Lock ____ atrine Waterworks , and so with many others ; and I believe that it has been on account of St . John's being until lately so strictly practical in its membership ancl working that it has shone so dimly in the speculative Masonic world . And I believe that Bro . Captain Speirs , our Prov . G . M . had good ground to stand on when he

stated-, that he considered that the Lodge of Glasgow St . John had about a hundred years to come and go upon with any other lodge . I also consider that it does all the more honour to Bro . Captain Speirs that althoug h , he is a member of both the St . Mary ' s Chapel No . 1 aud of the Mother Kilwinning No . 0

, , he yet , when the evidence of our age aud priority is placed before him , boldly asserts that from that evidence he must acknowledge that the Lodge of Glasgow St . John is entitled to be ranked as the first in Scotland next to the Grand Lodge . I should like to know upon what good grounds

the Mother Kilwinning is supposed to have existed about A . D . 92 G . I take that to be a strong flight of imagination , as at the best I do not believe that it can show anything to cany it further back than the 12 th century , when it ¦ may have been formed by a colony of foreign Masons ; then , hut not before . But if anything can be produced to show that the Mother

Kilwinning existed before the 12 th century , let us have it . I must now now conclude at present , ancl would respectfully ask you to insert , for the information of all interested in our old lodges , the translation of our charter as given on pages 6 and 7 of the history of

our lodge by Bro . James Cruickshank , P . M .. and thereafter , with your kind permission , we might he able to say something further on a future occasion . Yours fraternally , W . P . BUCHAN , P . S . W . 3 his .

Glasgow , Jan . 13 , 1 S 6 S . The following is a copy of the original charter : " Malcolm the III ., by the Grace of God , King of Scots , wishes health and safety to the Bishops , Princes , Earls , Barons , Ministers , and Administrators

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1868-01-25, Page 9” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 25 June 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_25011868/page/9/.
  • List
  • Grid
Title Category Page
SCOTTISH FREEMASONRY. Article 1
MASONIC PILGRIMAGE TO THE ORIENT. Article 2
REMINISCENCES AND EXPERIENCES OF FREEMASONRY. Article 4
OUR AMERICAN CORRESPONDENCE. Article 5
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. Article 6
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 8
TRAMPS. Article 8
LODGE OF GLASGOW ST. JOHN. Article 9
BRO. SPEIR'S ON THE ANTIQUITY OF SCOTS LODGES. Article 10
MASONIC MEMS. Article 11
METROPOLITAN. Article 11
PROVINCIAL. Article 12
NORTH WALES AND SHROPSHIRE. Article 15
CHANNEL ISLANDS. Article 18
ROYAL ARCH. Article 18
MARK MASONRY. Article 19
MASONIC FESTIVITIES. Article 19
REVIEWS. Article 19
MEETINGS OF THE LEARNED SOCIETIES FOR THE WEEK ENDING FEBRUARY 1ST, 1868. Article 20
METROPOLITAN LODGE MEETINGS, ETC., FOR THE WEEK ENDING FEBRUARY 1ST, 1S6S. ' Article 20
MASONIC LIFEBOAT FUND. Article 20
TURKISH BATHS FOR BRIGHTON. Article 20
TO CORRESPONDENTS. Article 20
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Tramps.

the applicant stated he is or was a member , asking the lodge to refund the amount given by him to one of its members . 11 it do so , well ; if it did not , not give any satisfactory reason why it declined , then let the name and number of the lodge so neglecting be sent through the provinces . My letter to thee is already too lengthy . In

conelusion , I feel certain that if these plans were tried the " worthy" would be more generously dealt with , and the " unworthy" would cease , and that thy society would be a great gainer . I remain , thy sincere friend , A QUAKED .

Lodge Of Glasgow St. John.

LODGE OF GLASGOW ST . JOHN .

TO THE EDITOB OP THE EBEEHASOXS' _ tACAZI _ fE A .. D -JASOXIC HIREOB , Dear Sir and Brother , —In your last number I read with pleasure the very graphic report , by your representative , of the yearly Festival of the Lodge of G-lasgow St . John No . 3 lis . But I perceive by his prefatory remarks that he is rather sceptical of our ability to prove it to be the SlOfch anniversary of our

lodge , so with your kind permission I would desire to make a few remarks thereanent . On reading the History of England , about A . D . 1222 , the following passage occurs : — "It is related that when the Royal Commissioners presented themselves to Earl Warenne , and required to see the titles

of his estates , the earl unsheathed his sword , and stretched it out before them . ' This , ' said he , ' is the instrument by which I hold my lands , and by it ; I mean to defend them . ' " So in like manner would the Brethren of St . John ' s do—r ever on tly folding out our musty old parchmentthat grand old charter

, , which is worthy to be framed in gold . This , say we , is our title to be ranked as the first lodge in Scotland , and by it we mean to support it . Too long has the anomalous position of No . 3 his been held by our lodge , and although our brethren of the east by their

might have thus punished our lodge for holding back from the Grand Lodge of Scotland at its formation , yet we trust that ri ght will ultimately carry the day , and the Lodge of G-lasgow St . John be placed on the roll in its Adamite position as the father of all . Our charter , granted by Malcolm III ., A . D . 1057 , was sustained in the Court of Sessionsome time ago

, , as a genuine charter , in a question of privilege , ancl the case decided in favour of the incorporation , principally on the evidence it afforded . The fact , also , of our number being 3 i- shows that there is something extraordinary about our lodge . We are neither 8 nor -1 but 3 hisa position which

, , no other lodge that I know of holds but itself , that being , however , the best that could be got for it from those in power , when it joined the Grand Lodge . For as the then Grand Clerk , Bro . J . Linning Woodman , said , in 1850 , " Whatever may be done by the old lodge hereafter , I would not recommend farther

agitation at present . " So the then brethren of St . John ' s accepted of No . 3 his . Your representative is rather satirical about " the lodge of free and accepted or speculative masons announcing that in the year 1 S 67 she held her 810 th anniversary . " Now we assert no such thing , what we assert being that we are the descendants of the Glasgow St .

Lodge Of Glasgow St. John.

John ' s Lodge of Practical Freemasons ( or , as the charter styles it , the St . John ' s Lodge of Free Incorporate Masons ) , which was chartered in 1057 , and which , to suit the age , became disjoined from the Glasgow Incorporation of Masons , and lately joined the Grand Lodge of Scotland . The St . John ' s Lodge isto be now and from henceforth a lodge of free and

accepted or speculative Masons , under the government of the Grand Lodge of Scotland , while the Incorporation of Masons still exists as a separate body , its use now , I believe , being to act as a charitable institution in behoof of decayed members , & c . The Lodge of Glasgow St . . John No . 3 his still numbers

, however , amongst its members brethren who are also members of the Incorporation . In 1851 the office of R . W . M . was held by Bro . David Mauwell , who was also at the same time Deacon of the Incorporation ; and I am happy to add that while our cathedral was the occasion of the founding of St . John ' swhen

, Glasgow ivas " unco sma ' , " we still'have in our lodge the same good practical masonry , for the aforesaid Bro . Mauwell is the builder of the last great work whicli marks the progress of our city , viz ., our new Harbour Dock . He was also one of the contractors

for the Lock ____ atrine Waterworks , and so with many others ; and I believe that it has been on account of St . John's being until lately so strictly practical in its membership ancl working that it has shone so dimly in the speculative Masonic world . And I believe that Bro . Captain Speirs , our Prov . G . M . had good ground to stand on when he

stated-, that he considered that the Lodge of Glasgow St . John had about a hundred years to come and go upon with any other lodge . I also consider that it does all the more honour to Bro . Captain Speirs that althoug h , he is a member of both the St . Mary ' s Chapel No . 1 aud of the Mother Kilwinning No . 0

, , he yet , when the evidence of our age aud priority is placed before him , boldly asserts that from that evidence he must acknowledge that the Lodge of Glasgow St . John is entitled to be ranked as the first in Scotland next to the Grand Lodge . I should like to know upon what good grounds

the Mother Kilwinning is supposed to have existed about A . D . 92 G . I take that to be a strong flight of imagination , as at the best I do not believe that it can show anything to cany it further back than the 12 th century , when it ¦ may have been formed by a colony of foreign Masons ; then , hut not before . But if anything can be produced to show that the Mother

Kilwinning existed before the 12 th century , let us have it . I must now now conclude at present , ancl would respectfully ask you to insert , for the information of all interested in our old lodges , the translation of our charter as given on pages 6 and 7 of the history of

our lodge by Bro . James Cruickshank , P . M .. and thereafter , with your kind permission , we might he able to say something further on a future occasion . Yours fraternally , W . P . BUCHAN , P . S . W . 3 his .

Glasgow , Jan . 13 , 1 S 6 S . The following is a copy of the original charter : " Malcolm the III ., by the Grace of God , King of Scots , wishes health and safety to the Bishops , Princes , Earls , Barons , Ministers , and Administrators

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