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  • The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine
  • Feb. 22, 1868
  • Page 7
  • MASONIC NOTES AND QUTERIES.
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, Feb. 22, 1868: Page 7

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    Article THE KNIGHTS TEMPLARS. ← Page 3 of 3
    Article MASONIC NOTES AND QUTERIES. Page 1 of 1
    Article CORRESPONDENCE. Page 1 of 4 →
Page 7

Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

The Knights Templars.

ceptors . The Attorney-General at Rome was always a person of importance , and generally a priest ; for on the suppression of the Order , the celebrated Peter de Bononia , who so gallantly ancl eloquently defended the Knights at the time of their persecution by Philip le Bel held that office . ( To be continued . )

Masonic Notes And Quteries.

MASONIC NOTES AND QUTERIES .

STJIBOIiOGY . Can any of your readers give me a tolerably copious list of authorities on symbols ?—E . E . LODGE MUSIC . It appears , hy an advertisement from a brother in

your pages , that an harmonium can be had for five guineas , say five shillings a-piece for a lodge of twenty members . There are few lodges in which some brother cannot be found to play . For eighteen guineas , or a pound a head , they can have an harmonium with five octaves and eleven stops .

There should be a by-law in each lodge that the organist , like the secretary , should be exempt from subscription , and we should soon get a body of organists from our young members . The proceeds of one initiation will provide an harmonium . —R . Y .

A NEW BEANCH OF MASONIC IITEBATITBE . As a Masonic Archaeological Institute is proposed , I direct the attention of its intending members to a new branch of Masonic literature or Masonic libels , pointed out in your pages a * p . 131 , and published by Roman Catholic booksellers . It appears they

have reproduced two scandalous and lying works , Professor Robison ' s "Freemasonry , " price Is . ; and " La France Maconnerie , " by Cyr , price 4 s . 6 d . As well might the vagaries of the Peculiar People be brought against our Bro . Pope Pius the Ninth and his votaries , as the vagaries of French Jacobin

Masons against the Masons of England and Scotland . Parliament pronounced on this subject at the period of Prof . Robison ' s pretended revelations and , as Bro . Tweddell says , the experience of sixty years has still further proved the loyalty and morality of Masons . Have the Roman Catholic publishers and printers of libels against Freemasonry republished the several works charging the Jesuits and other priests with tampering with Freemasonry ?—E . L .

0-EAND LODGE OE ANCIENT MASONS IN GEE 1 UNT ( p . 128 . ) How can it he said to be clearly ascertained that such a Grand Lodge was formed as early as 1452 ?—QUEEY .

LOST wealth may be restored by industry—the wreck of health regained b y temperance—forgotten knowledge restored by study —alienated friendshi p soothed into forgetfulness—even forfeited reputation won b y patience and virtue . But , whoever looked upon his vanished honors—recalled his slighted years—stamped them with wisdom —or effaced from heaven ' s record the fearful blot of wasted time ?

Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

The " Editor is not responsible for the opinions expressed by Correspondents . PRIOIRTT OF THE LODGE OF GLASGOW ST . JOHN" TO THE MOTHER KILWINNING .

TO TUB EDITOH 01 ? THE FREEMASONS' MAGAZINE AND MASONIC HIREOIt . Dear Sir and Brother , —I see in your issue of February Sth an article by our highly-esteemed Bro ., D . Murray Lyon , relative to the antiquity of the Cannongate Kilwinning and of- St . John ' s Lodge , Glasgow , and would thank him for the information

it contains ; at the same time I have to find the same fault with reference to his remarks regarding the Canongate Kilwinning as I find with those of Bro . Oneal Haye's , * viz ., that the whole of it is about the existence of the Cannongate Kilwinning in the 17 th and 18 th centuries ( which I do not dispute ) ; what

we want being proof of the existence of the Cannongate Kilwinning in the 12 th century , which I am afraid , from the silence of both , neither can show . So far as I know at present , the Mother Kilwinning shoot out the Cannongate Kilwinning branch in the 17 th century . At ' same timeif there is proof of a

, prior existence , let us have it , also how far back ? I find Bro . Lyon also speaking of " the Lodge of Kilwinning ' s universally acknowledged claim to be the Mother Lodge of Scotland , '' which is simply a mistake . " Bro . Lyon comes nearer the truth when he says , in the freemasons' Magarinc of April 27 th ,

1867 , page 303 , "Is almost universally believed . " But if Bro . Lyon will look to page 115 of Bro . J . G . Findel ' s "History of Freemasonry , " published in 1866 , he will find him speaking of " the fable of the origin of Scotch Masonry at Kilwinning ; " and I may add that in the aforesaid 303 rd page of the Magazine it seems to be disputed whether 1140 or

1165 be the correct date of the foundation of Kilwinning Abbey . I find , however , that Bro . Lyon prefers to take the older date , 1140 , as the date of the foundation both of the Abbey and Lodge , f Again , in support of Bro . Findel's statements that Kilwinning is not the Mother of Masonry in

Scotland , I would point to the foundation of the Glasgow Cathedral in 1123 , in the time of Bishop John , which was built by the Brethren of St . John's Lodge , Glasgow , and which lodge seems to have existed there , not only from the time of . Malcolm's Charter , but before thatfrom time immemorialthe Charter itself

show-, , ing that it is not the constituting of a new lodge , but the giving of greater power to an already established lodge . In fact , our charter ( whether the date be 1057 or 1157 , as the case may he ) is the first Constitution of a Grand Lodge in Scotland : — " None in my dominions shall erect a lodge until they make

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1868-02-22, Page 7” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 8 July 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_22021868/page/7/.
  • List
  • Grid
Title Category Page
SKETCHES OF NOTABLE MASONIC WORKS. Article 1
ROYAL ARCH AND SOME OTHER QUESTIONS. Article 2
Untitled Article 3
THE KNIGHTS TEMPLARS. Article 5
MASONIC NOTES AND QUTERIES. Article 7
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 7
M.W. BRO. ROBERT MORRIS AT LIVERPOOL. Article 10
AMERICAN FREEMASONRY. Article 11
ROYAL ARCH AND SOME OTHER QUESTIONS. Article 11
H.R.H. PRINCE SKANDERBEG. Article 12
IMPOSTORS. Article 12
MASONIC MEMS. Article 13
METROPOLITAN. Article 13
PROVINCIAL. Article 14
SCOTLAND. Article 15
TURKEY. Article 16
ROYAL ARCH. Article 16
MARK MASONRY. Article 17
Obituary. Article 17
DEATH OF BRO. ISAAC SMITH. Article 19
Poetry. Article 20
HER MAJESTY'S THEATRE AND BRO. S. MAY. Article 20
MEETINGS OF THE LEARNED SOCIETIES FOR THE WEEK ENDING FEBRUARY 29TH, 1868. Article 20
METROPOLITAN LODGE MEETINGS, ETC., FOR THE WEEK ENDING FEBRUARY 29TH , 1868. Article 20
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

The Knights Templars.

ceptors . The Attorney-General at Rome was always a person of importance , and generally a priest ; for on the suppression of the Order , the celebrated Peter de Bononia , who so gallantly ancl eloquently defended the Knights at the time of their persecution by Philip le Bel held that office . ( To be continued . )

Masonic Notes And Quteries.

MASONIC NOTES AND QUTERIES .

STJIBOIiOGY . Can any of your readers give me a tolerably copious list of authorities on symbols ?—E . E . LODGE MUSIC . It appears , hy an advertisement from a brother in

your pages , that an harmonium can be had for five guineas , say five shillings a-piece for a lodge of twenty members . There are few lodges in which some brother cannot be found to play . For eighteen guineas , or a pound a head , they can have an harmonium with five octaves and eleven stops .

There should be a by-law in each lodge that the organist , like the secretary , should be exempt from subscription , and we should soon get a body of organists from our young members . The proceeds of one initiation will provide an harmonium . —R . Y .

A NEW BEANCH OF MASONIC IITEBATITBE . As a Masonic Archaeological Institute is proposed , I direct the attention of its intending members to a new branch of Masonic literature or Masonic libels , pointed out in your pages a * p . 131 , and published by Roman Catholic booksellers . It appears they

have reproduced two scandalous and lying works , Professor Robison ' s "Freemasonry , " price Is . ; and " La France Maconnerie , " by Cyr , price 4 s . 6 d . As well might the vagaries of the Peculiar People be brought against our Bro . Pope Pius the Ninth and his votaries , as the vagaries of French Jacobin

Masons against the Masons of England and Scotland . Parliament pronounced on this subject at the period of Prof . Robison ' s pretended revelations and , as Bro . Tweddell says , the experience of sixty years has still further proved the loyalty and morality of Masons . Have the Roman Catholic publishers and printers of libels against Freemasonry republished the several works charging the Jesuits and other priests with tampering with Freemasonry ?—E . L .

0-EAND LODGE OE ANCIENT MASONS IN GEE 1 UNT ( p . 128 . ) How can it he said to be clearly ascertained that such a Grand Lodge was formed as early as 1452 ?—QUEEY .

LOST wealth may be restored by industry—the wreck of health regained b y temperance—forgotten knowledge restored by study —alienated friendshi p soothed into forgetfulness—even forfeited reputation won b y patience and virtue . But , whoever looked upon his vanished honors—recalled his slighted years—stamped them with wisdom —or effaced from heaven ' s record the fearful blot of wasted time ?

Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

The " Editor is not responsible for the opinions expressed by Correspondents . PRIOIRTT OF THE LODGE OF GLASGOW ST . JOHN" TO THE MOTHER KILWINNING .

TO TUB EDITOH 01 ? THE FREEMASONS' MAGAZINE AND MASONIC HIREOIt . Dear Sir and Brother , —I see in your issue of February Sth an article by our highly-esteemed Bro ., D . Murray Lyon , relative to the antiquity of the Cannongate Kilwinning and of- St . John ' s Lodge , Glasgow , and would thank him for the information

it contains ; at the same time I have to find the same fault with reference to his remarks regarding the Canongate Kilwinning as I find with those of Bro . Oneal Haye's , * viz ., that the whole of it is about the existence of the Cannongate Kilwinning in the 17 th and 18 th centuries ( which I do not dispute ) ; what

we want being proof of the existence of the Cannongate Kilwinning in the 12 th century , which I am afraid , from the silence of both , neither can show . So far as I know at present , the Mother Kilwinning shoot out the Cannongate Kilwinning branch in the 17 th century . At ' same timeif there is proof of a

, prior existence , let us have it , also how far back ? I find Bro . Lyon also speaking of " the Lodge of Kilwinning ' s universally acknowledged claim to be the Mother Lodge of Scotland , '' which is simply a mistake . " Bro . Lyon comes nearer the truth when he says , in the freemasons' Magarinc of April 27 th ,

1867 , page 303 , "Is almost universally believed . " But if Bro . Lyon will look to page 115 of Bro . J . G . Findel ' s "History of Freemasonry , " published in 1866 , he will find him speaking of " the fable of the origin of Scotch Masonry at Kilwinning ; " and I may add that in the aforesaid 303 rd page of the Magazine it seems to be disputed whether 1140 or

1165 be the correct date of the foundation of Kilwinning Abbey . I find , however , that Bro . Lyon prefers to take the older date , 1140 , as the date of the foundation both of the Abbey and Lodge , f Again , in support of Bro . Findel's statements that Kilwinning is not the Mother of Masonry in

Scotland , I would point to the foundation of the Glasgow Cathedral in 1123 , in the time of Bishop John , which was built by the Brethren of St . John's Lodge , Glasgow , and which lodge seems to have existed there , not only from the time of . Malcolm's Charter , but before thatfrom time immemorialthe Charter itself

show-, , ing that it is not the constituting of a new lodge , but the giving of greater power to an already established lodge . In fact , our charter ( whether the date be 1057 or 1157 , as the case may he ) is the first Constitution of a Grand Lodge in Scotland : — " None in my dominions shall erect a lodge until they make

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