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  • The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine
  • April 16, 1870
  • Page 8
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, April 16, 1870: Page 8

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    Article MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. ← Page 2 of 3
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Page 8

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Masonic Notes And Queries.

INSTALLATION . Is a Prov . G . M ., when installed as a W . M . of a lodge outside his own province , entitled to a higher number of salutations than that actually awarded to a W . M . —BTSTASDEB . [ NO ; Provincial Grand rank can only he exercised in the province in which it is conferred . ]

NEGBO LODGES . A Mr . Millingen , a native of Constantinople , lately published a paper about Negroes in Turkey , in which lie stated that ( lie Negroes , or rather , Negrees , in Constantinople are enrolled in a number of number of lodges , each of which is called a Col . These lodges

areto protect the slaves , defend their legal rights , assist them when free , and obtain their manumission . Each is presided over by a Negres , called a Col-Bashi . It is more than likely that there is very little foundation for the whole story . Col-Bashi is most likely Kaol-Bashichief of the slavesor rather head slave

, , , and these are only old women , who set themselves up in African fashion as Obi women—that is , as witch women , able to defend their followers , and levying contributions from them . —S . S .

BEOTHEE " EBOE" AND MASONIC DEGBEES ( p . 267 ) . At page 3 G 0 of the MAGAZINE for November 7 th , 1863 , Bro . "Ehor" says , " in 1715 , and long before 1715 , the same system we have now was in full operation , in all its leading particulars , in this country . Of this lentof evidence is

hajipilforthcoininginp y y ; deed , it may without fear of contradiction be affirmed that there is substantial evidence which goes back to the middle of the 17 th century , as to the identity of our Craft ritual , now as then . " The above was written in 1 SC 3 , yet this " plenty of evidence" has never been seen bme as yetnor I greatlfear will

y , y it ever he seen . While the " Old York Grand Lodge " supposed to have existed before 1717 , is simply a dream . "No "Old York Grand Lodge" existed till after 1717 , and then the idea was copied from that of London . —W . P . B .

sxLLOGisirs OB MASONIC FOUNDATIONS , ( page 280 ) . If the Manning-ham letter he genuine , then it might be possibly used as a foundation upon which to build ; but if said letter is a forgery , then it is only a waste of time attempting to build aught upon it . —W . P . B

BEO . CAPTAIN WAEEEN ' s VISIT TO SAIDA IN JUL-y 1869 . I feel obliged for having had the pleasure of reading Bro . "Warren ' s able remarks in last weeks' Magazine ( p . 297 ) . Many of his statements are most interesting and - useful . Anent a square tower at

Sefurieh he says . " I do not think tbe lower stones are in situ . " Then as to Mason ' s marks on "Hiram ' s Tomb , " he could only see two ; one , which appears to be ancient , " is a Christian Cross of the Byzantine type at tlie western end . " "The other consists of a square and compasses , very recently and rudely cut ,

apparently by some enthusiastic Mason , who should have learnt the proper use of his chisel before he attempted such a task . " Further on he says , " close to the ground was a triangle in course of construction , which is probably completed by this time , if the artist engaged on it has kept to his work . " We are obliged to Bro . Captain Warren for these hints , they will

Masonic Notes And Queries.

perhaps help to counteract those over " enthusiastic Masons , " who with much faith and little judgment would fain make a mountain of a mole-hill , and who , if they should see a square and compasses cut upon some old building , instantly jump to the conclusion that they have here ample proof (!) of the existence of Freemasonry at the date when said building was

erected , several centuries ago , whereas tbe real age of the carving or cutting may only be about as many days of the building is years old ; while , moreover , other Crafts used the square and compasses as well as the Masons .

OLD YOEK BITE . It appears to me that the notion of the " Old York Rite " ( consisting of either 3 or more degrees ) , being in existence before A . D . 1717 , is purely imaginary . It is simply a manufactured pretension to detract from the honour and status of the Grand Lodge of England , first held in London , . D . . 1717 . —W . P . B .

MASONIC THEOEIES . A Brother is quite right when , in the paper which he has sent me , he observes that it is not uncommon to see a Masonic theory , which is excessive in one direction , met by another Masonic theory , which is not less excessive in an opposite direction .

But the line of Horace which follows should be omitted ; it may be considered to imply that some Craft writer is a fool , and this , methinks , would ill accord with our professions of brotherly love *—0 . P . COOPEE .

EOST OEOSS . When Christian Eosy Cross set out upon his travels he stuck five roses in his hat in the form of a cross . Strange that the Scottish Boyal Order only should perpetuate this , and that it should claim a Templar origin , whilst the English Eose Croix should claim Eosy Cross , and , omitting his badge , substitute the standard of James III . —JOHN YABKEE .

HASTES DEGBEE ( page 206 ) . My friend , referred to at page 206 , again writes tome as follows : — " I have noticed your appropriate remarks about my reference to the above titles , viz-, Master and Fellow Craft . The 13 th clause of ConstitutionsA . D . 1723 in arranging for apprentices to

, , be ' admitted Masters and Fellow Craft' iu Grand Lodge , would seem certainly to favour the idea of a third degree being then in existence . It is probaolehy 1720 the Master Mason ' s degree was instituted ; it cannot , however , be decided by the Book of Constitutions , A . D . 1723 ; what' Masters' are here alluded to .

We should say Fellow Craft and Masters , not the reverse at the present time . The clerks of the Grand Treasurer and Grand Secretary were only required to be Fellow Crafts' 13 th Regulation—The Grand Tyler , also , only had to he aFelloiv Craft . Two Fellow Crafts of a lodge were to act as Deputy Wardens

in Grand Lodge in case the regular Wardens ( of said lodge ) were acting Grand Wardens . 15 th clause . The Felloiv Crafts invariably are referred to as the highest degree throughout the Constitutions , A . D .

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1870-04-16, Page 8” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 8 July 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_16041870/page/8/.
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Title Category Page
Untitled Article 1
ILLUSTRATIONS OF THE HISTORY OF THE CRAFT.—No. 3. Article 1
MASON'S SQUARE IN GLOUCESTER CATHEDRAL. Article 2
THE HAUGHFOOT LODGE AND SPECULATIVE MASONRY. Article 3
MASONIC ORDERS OF KNIGHTHOOD. Article 5
MASONIC JOTTINGS.—No. 15. Article 6
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. Article 7
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 9
MASONIC SNUFF BOX. Article 9
WHY IS IT ? Article 10
Untitled Article 11
Untitled Article 13
MASONIC MEMS. Article 13
Craft Masonry. Article 13
PROVINCIAL. Article 15
SCOTTISH CONSTITUTION. Article 15
INDIA. Article 16
ROYAL ARCH. Article 17
MARK MASONRY. Article 18
ANCIENT AND ACCEPTED RITE. Article 18
MASONIC LIFEBOAT FUND. Article 18
REVIEWS. Article 18
PALESTINE EXPLORATION FUND PHOTOGRAPHS. Article 19
SCIENTIFIC MEETINGS. Article 20
LIST OF LODGE, MEETINGS, &c., FOR WEEK ENDING 23HD APRIL, 1870. Article 20
TO CORRESPONDENTS. Article 20
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Masonic Notes And Queries.

INSTALLATION . Is a Prov . G . M ., when installed as a W . M . of a lodge outside his own province , entitled to a higher number of salutations than that actually awarded to a W . M . —BTSTASDEB . [ NO ; Provincial Grand rank can only he exercised in the province in which it is conferred . ]

NEGBO LODGES . A Mr . Millingen , a native of Constantinople , lately published a paper about Negroes in Turkey , in which lie stated that ( lie Negroes , or rather , Negrees , in Constantinople are enrolled in a number of number of lodges , each of which is called a Col . These lodges

areto protect the slaves , defend their legal rights , assist them when free , and obtain their manumission . Each is presided over by a Negres , called a Col-Bashi . It is more than likely that there is very little foundation for the whole story . Col-Bashi is most likely Kaol-Bashichief of the slavesor rather head slave

, , , and these are only old women , who set themselves up in African fashion as Obi women—that is , as witch women , able to defend their followers , and levying contributions from them . —S . S .

BEOTHEE " EBOE" AND MASONIC DEGBEES ( p . 267 ) . At page 3 G 0 of the MAGAZINE for November 7 th , 1863 , Bro . "Ehor" says , " in 1715 , and long before 1715 , the same system we have now was in full operation , in all its leading particulars , in this country . Of this lentof evidence is

hajipilforthcoininginp y y ; deed , it may without fear of contradiction be affirmed that there is substantial evidence which goes back to the middle of the 17 th century , as to the identity of our Craft ritual , now as then . " The above was written in 1 SC 3 , yet this " plenty of evidence" has never been seen bme as yetnor I greatlfear will

y , y it ever he seen . While the " Old York Grand Lodge " supposed to have existed before 1717 , is simply a dream . "No "Old York Grand Lodge" existed till after 1717 , and then the idea was copied from that of London . —W . P . B .

sxLLOGisirs OB MASONIC FOUNDATIONS , ( page 280 ) . If the Manning-ham letter he genuine , then it might be possibly used as a foundation upon which to build ; but if said letter is a forgery , then it is only a waste of time attempting to build aught upon it . —W . P . B

BEO . CAPTAIN WAEEEN ' s VISIT TO SAIDA IN JUL-y 1869 . I feel obliged for having had the pleasure of reading Bro . "Warren ' s able remarks in last weeks' Magazine ( p . 297 ) . Many of his statements are most interesting and - useful . Anent a square tower at

Sefurieh he says . " I do not think tbe lower stones are in situ . " Then as to Mason ' s marks on "Hiram ' s Tomb , " he could only see two ; one , which appears to be ancient , " is a Christian Cross of the Byzantine type at tlie western end . " "The other consists of a square and compasses , very recently and rudely cut ,

apparently by some enthusiastic Mason , who should have learnt the proper use of his chisel before he attempted such a task . " Further on he says , " close to the ground was a triangle in course of construction , which is probably completed by this time , if the artist engaged on it has kept to his work . " We are obliged to Bro . Captain Warren for these hints , they will

Masonic Notes And Queries.

perhaps help to counteract those over " enthusiastic Masons , " who with much faith and little judgment would fain make a mountain of a mole-hill , and who , if they should see a square and compasses cut upon some old building , instantly jump to the conclusion that they have here ample proof (!) of the existence of Freemasonry at the date when said building was

erected , several centuries ago , whereas tbe real age of the carving or cutting may only be about as many days of the building is years old ; while , moreover , other Crafts used the square and compasses as well as the Masons .

OLD YOEK BITE . It appears to me that the notion of the " Old York Rite " ( consisting of either 3 or more degrees ) , being in existence before A . D . 1717 , is purely imaginary . It is simply a manufactured pretension to detract from the honour and status of the Grand Lodge of England , first held in London , . D . . 1717 . —W . P . B .

MASONIC THEOEIES . A Brother is quite right when , in the paper which he has sent me , he observes that it is not uncommon to see a Masonic theory , which is excessive in one direction , met by another Masonic theory , which is not less excessive in an opposite direction .

But the line of Horace which follows should be omitted ; it may be considered to imply that some Craft writer is a fool , and this , methinks , would ill accord with our professions of brotherly love *—0 . P . COOPEE .

EOST OEOSS . When Christian Eosy Cross set out upon his travels he stuck five roses in his hat in the form of a cross . Strange that the Scottish Boyal Order only should perpetuate this , and that it should claim a Templar origin , whilst the English Eose Croix should claim Eosy Cross , and , omitting his badge , substitute the standard of James III . —JOHN YABKEE .

HASTES DEGBEE ( page 206 ) . My friend , referred to at page 206 , again writes tome as follows : — " I have noticed your appropriate remarks about my reference to the above titles , viz-, Master and Fellow Craft . The 13 th clause of ConstitutionsA . D . 1723 in arranging for apprentices to

, , be ' admitted Masters and Fellow Craft' iu Grand Lodge , would seem certainly to favour the idea of a third degree being then in existence . It is probaolehy 1720 the Master Mason ' s degree was instituted ; it cannot , however , be decided by the Book of Constitutions , A . D . 1723 ; what' Masters' are here alluded to .

We should say Fellow Craft and Masters , not the reverse at the present time . The clerks of the Grand Treasurer and Grand Secretary were only required to be Fellow Crafts' 13 th Regulation—The Grand Tyler , also , only had to he aFelloiv Craft . Two Fellow Crafts of a lodge were to act as Deputy Wardens

in Grand Lodge in case the regular Wardens ( of said lodge ) were acting Grand Wardens . 15 th clause . The Felloiv Crafts invariably are referred to as the highest degree throughout the Constitutions , A . D .

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