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Article MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. ← Page 2 of 3 →
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Masonic Notes And Queries.
ST . JOHN , THE PATHOS SAINT OP MASONS ( p . 34 S ) I had only a glance at Bro . Rehold ' s work , hut , from what I saw then , I should not he inclined to pin my faith to all he says , nor to the rest of Bro . Reitatn ' s quotation after the first five lines especially . If I remember correctly , the Aberdeen Masonic Saint was Saint John the Evangelist , whose day is 27 th December . * However , 1 am certainly obliged to Bro . " Reitam " for his remarks . —W . P . BUCHAN .
BRO . HERTZVOELD , BRO . PINDEL , AND D . G . M . MANNINGHAM . The communication of a Past Provincial Grand "Warden in the north of England has been delivered to me . My answers to his three inquiries are : —First , there is nothing in Bro . Hertzvoeld ' s letter to me from
which it can be inferred that he was aware of the dispute going on amongst us respecting the period at which speculative Masonry first made its appearance . His Masonic position is—Member of the Council of Ancients of the lodge UUnion Moyal . His social position is—Chief Officer at the Ministry of Finance
in the Kingdom of the Netherlands . West , Bro . Findel's letter to me has been mislaid . It was written from Leipzig some time in September or October , and merely informed me that it was his intention to insert D . G . M . Manningham's letter of 1757 iu the second edition of the " History of Freemasonry , " then nearly ready for the press . Lastly , there is , if I recollect right , some slight mention of D . G . M . Manningham in "Preston ' s Illustrations . " —C . P . C .
MASONIC CREDULITY . —THE PIRST GRAND LODGE OE ENGLAND . Bro . Banning feelingly informs you that , as so much has been written of late tending to undermine the faith of the fraternity in the traditionary antiquity of our Order , he sends a transcript from one of our standard works as tending to quiet
the minds of those who are unsettled on the subject . This proves to be an extract from one of the books of that worthy man and Mason , and most incapable critic , Dr . Oliver , repeating Preston , and which recites the tale about King Athelstane making his brother Patron of the Masons at Yorkwith the additional
, fragment , —• " Here many old writings were produced in Greek , Latin , and other languages , from which the constitutions of the English lodges are derived . " It certainly is an exceedingly likely story that such MSS . were produced at York , in Greek , or in Chinese either .
A p iece of history of this kind is proveable like other history , and Bro . Banning will render good service to his cause if he will produce one siugle line from a chronicle in Anglo-Saxon or Latin which justifies any such statement of Preston or Oliver . This kind of assertionwithout historical proofin
, , the case of the tale of Queen Elizabeth and the lodge at York , has brought on Bro . John Yarker a very reasonable demand for historical evidence in the last number of Notes and Queries . — -N . B .
MASOUIC HISTORY V . MASOUIC SECRETS ( p . 34 J 9 ) . Whatever punishment mig ht be due to the revealer of Masonic secrets , the writing of Masonic " history " is a different matter . —PICTUS .
MASONRY AND PRIESTS . It is very likely true , as some have suggested , and lately Historicus , that the Masonic rituals were first organized by priests in the middle ages . It then becomes a strange thing that , in the ISth and 19 th centuries , Popes are found excommunicating Freemasons and their rituals , and in utter opposition to them in this day . There is no real reason why priests should not become Freemasons , as some do , and remain good Freemasons and good priests . —A . B .
SPECULATIVE MASONRY . Bro . Buchan has hardly saved himself here . Bro l Hughan says there was not any organization of Grand Lodges or Provincial Grand Lodges before 1717 , and he says there was not the system of three distinct and separate degrees . This does not help
Bro . Buchan . Administration is a very small matter . There are no Provincial Grand Lodges or Grand Masters iu France , and not properly in the United States . The three degrees may have been more or less systematically developed , but the question still remains"Were gentlemenfor instanceadmitted
pre-, , , vious to 1717 on a system of ritual identical in con » stitution with the present rituals ? " The ad mission of gentlemen may have begun in the middle ages as patrons , and as a consequence of the admission of clerical members . —HISTORICUS .
SPECULATIVE FREEMASONRY AND BRO . BUCHAN . I cannot agree at all with Bro . Buchan ' s statement that , —It was not operative Masonry that gradually developed itself into speculative Freemasonry , " and unless he has evidence which has been denied to other Masonic studentshe cannot be possessed of any
, authority for such an assertion . Bro . Buchan has not shown viluj operative Masonry should not be termed the father of speculative Freemasonry . When he has done his best to do so , I may have a word to say on the subject . —W . J . HUGHAN .
HAUGHPOOT LODGE . In common with several Masonic students , I am reading the extracts from old records of the above ancient lodge with much interest , and shall look with eagerness . for the continuation of such valuable excerpts by Bro . R . S . He has my warmest
thanks for so kindly and fully responding to my wishes , and I feel certain that I am not singular in thus expressing gratification at these records being so carefully published . —W . J . HUGHAN .
SPECULATIVE PREEMASONRY AND ITS MANUFACTURERS . Speculative Masonry being manufactured about A . D . 1717 , operative Masonry was the ispoen which Doctors Desaguliers and Anderson made use of in administering the new idea . *—W . P . B .
THE TEMPLARS AND PREEMASONRY ( p . 870 ) . I fully subscribe to the truthful , historical , ancl consistent remarks of " Historicus . " The ideas which he ' so ably expresses are those which I have for some time held . —W . P . BUCHAN .
Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.
Masonic Notes And Queries.
ST . JOHN , THE PATHOS SAINT OP MASONS ( p . 34 S ) I had only a glance at Bro . Rehold ' s work , hut , from what I saw then , I should not he inclined to pin my faith to all he says , nor to the rest of Bro . Reitatn ' s quotation after the first five lines especially . If I remember correctly , the Aberdeen Masonic Saint was Saint John the Evangelist , whose day is 27 th December . * However , 1 am certainly obliged to Bro . " Reitam " for his remarks . —W . P . BUCHAN .
BRO . HERTZVOELD , BRO . PINDEL , AND D . G . M . MANNINGHAM . The communication of a Past Provincial Grand "Warden in the north of England has been delivered to me . My answers to his three inquiries are : —First , there is nothing in Bro . Hertzvoeld ' s letter to me from
which it can be inferred that he was aware of the dispute going on amongst us respecting the period at which speculative Masonry first made its appearance . His Masonic position is—Member of the Council of Ancients of the lodge UUnion Moyal . His social position is—Chief Officer at the Ministry of Finance
in the Kingdom of the Netherlands . West , Bro . Findel's letter to me has been mislaid . It was written from Leipzig some time in September or October , and merely informed me that it was his intention to insert D . G . M . Manningham's letter of 1757 iu the second edition of the " History of Freemasonry , " then nearly ready for the press . Lastly , there is , if I recollect right , some slight mention of D . G . M . Manningham in "Preston ' s Illustrations . " —C . P . C .
MASONIC CREDULITY . —THE PIRST GRAND LODGE OE ENGLAND . Bro . Banning feelingly informs you that , as so much has been written of late tending to undermine the faith of the fraternity in the traditionary antiquity of our Order , he sends a transcript from one of our standard works as tending to quiet
the minds of those who are unsettled on the subject . This proves to be an extract from one of the books of that worthy man and Mason , and most incapable critic , Dr . Oliver , repeating Preston , and which recites the tale about King Athelstane making his brother Patron of the Masons at Yorkwith the additional
, fragment , —• " Here many old writings were produced in Greek , Latin , and other languages , from which the constitutions of the English lodges are derived . " It certainly is an exceedingly likely story that such MSS . were produced at York , in Greek , or in Chinese either .
A p iece of history of this kind is proveable like other history , and Bro . Banning will render good service to his cause if he will produce one siugle line from a chronicle in Anglo-Saxon or Latin which justifies any such statement of Preston or Oliver . This kind of assertionwithout historical proofin
, , the case of the tale of Queen Elizabeth and the lodge at York , has brought on Bro . John Yarker a very reasonable demand for historical evidence in the last number of Notes and Queries . — -N . B .
MASOUIC HISTORY V . MASOUIC SECRETS ( p . 34 J 9 ) . Whatever punishment mig ht be due to the revealer of Masonic secrets , the writing of Masonic " history " is a different matter . —PICTUS .
MASONRY AND PRIESTS . It is very likely true , as some have suggested , and lately Historicus , that the Masonic rituals were first organized by priests in the middle ages . It then becomes a strange thing that , in the ISth and 19 th centuries , Popes are found excommunicating Freemasons and their rituals , and in utter opposition to them in this day . There is no real reason why priests should not become Freemasons , as some do , and remain good Freemasons and good priests . —A . B .
SPECULATIVE MASONRY . Bro . Buchan has hardly saved himself here . Bro l Hughan says there was not any organization of Grand Lodges or Provincial Grand Lodges before 1717 , and he says there was not the system of three distinct and separate degrees . This does not help
Bro . Buchan . Administration is a very small matter . There are no Provincial Grand Lodges or Grand Masters iu France , and not properly in the United States . The three degrees may have been more or less systematically developed , but the question still remains"Were gentlemenfor instanceadmitted
pre-, , , vious to 1717 on a system of ritual identical in con » stitution with the present rituals ? " The ad mission of gentlemen may have begun in the middle ages as patrons , and as a consequence of the admission of clerical members . —HISTORICUS .
SPECULATIVE FREEMASONRY AND BRO . BUCHAN . I cannot agree at all with Bro . Buchan ' s statement that , —It was not operative Masonry that gradually developed itself into speculative Freemasonry , " and unless he has evidence which has been denied to other Masonic studentshe cannot be possessed of any
, authority for such an assertion . Bro . Buchan has not shown viluj operative Masonry should not be termed the father of speculative Freemasonry . When he has done his best to do so , I may have a word to say on the subject . —W . J . HUGHAN .
HAUGHPOOT LODGE . In common with several Masonic students , I am reading the extracts from old records of the above ancient lodge with much interest , and shall look with eagerness . for the continuation of such valuable excerpts by Bro . R . S . He has my warmest
thanks for so kindly and fully responding to my wishes , and I feel certain that I am not singular in thus expressing gratification at these records being so carefully published . —W . J . HUGHAN .
SPECULATIVE PREEMASONRY AND ITS MANUFACTURERS . Speculative Masonry being manufactured about A . D . 1717 , operative Masonry was the ispoen which Doctors Desaguliers and Anderson made use of in administering the new idea . *—W . P . B .
THE TEMPLARS AND PREEMASONRY ( p . 870 ) . I fully subscribe to the truthful , historical , ancl consistent remarks of " Historicus . " The ideas which he ' so ably expresses are those which I have for some time held . —W . P . BUCHAN .