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Article MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. ← Page 3 of 4 →
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Masonic Notes And Queries.
when they began to learn their trade . However , in order to speak to the point , we must wait until we hear exactly what the MS . contains . — W . P . BUCHAN . THE FORMATION OP LODGES . Writing lefore tea , I confess I am unable to understand the appositeness of BroBuchan ' s licated
. comp metaphor of tea and sugar . Perhaps I may comprehend it better after an extra dose of " the cup which cheers but not inebriates . " Meanwhile , I think Bro . B . does not take into account the reasons mentioned in my last note for believing that the formation of 340 lod in half a century from 1717 would be
ges something extraordinary . Let me now add that it is within my own knowledge that , in many lodges up to our own day , tradesmen were practically excluded , so that the circle from which members could be drawn
was very limited . Moreover , there were , previous to the present century , political causes which prevented the spread of such a society as ours- My own grandfather was in his youth called a " Jacobite , " and he well remembered the time when society was divided by the adherents of the Royal Houses of Stuart and
Hanover , who strove to fulfil Scripture , inasmuch as " the Jews had no dealings with the Samaritans . " Nowadays , Freemasonry has a free course , and , with constant inter-communication , the spread of our colonies , the large multiplication of the population , and the increase of Masonic organization , no wonder lodges should be formed with great rapidity .
THE ANTIQUITY OF FKEEMASONKY . I quite agree with Bro . "F . T . W . " that the MS . he quotes from affords strong proof of a recognized difference between operative and speculative Masonry '' towards the end of the 15 th century . " But there is an earlier proof of this fact to be found in the Masonic
Poem first edited by Mr . Haliwell in 1842 , which , written as it was by a monk towards the end of the 14 th century , not only evidences the same admitted difference , but alludes in express terms to the reception of non-operative members into the Order . Abseuce from time and ill health have prevented for
me some time past taking any part in the controversy respecting the antiquity of our Order , but I have never changed my already expressed opinion that the antiquity of our Order is low / anterior to 1717 , and that recent attempts to sever the operative lodges from the revival of 1717 , are most unwise , and entirely opposed to a mass of evidence , direct and indirect , which we are gradually accumulating on the subject . —A MASONIC STUDENT .
MASONIC EAMBLINGS . Bro . "Beitam" appears to have given a very clear and concise statement of the probable origin of speculative Masonry , and it is not enough to answer such arguments with contradiction unsupported by proof . Our traditionsto be rejectedmust not merelbe
, , y denied , they must be proved to be false . It is easy enough to doubt , but , as "Eeitam" says , — "It is an equally foolish thing to believe everything and to believe nothinp-. "—J . A . IT .
MASONIC PEOBLEM . It appears that , after all , Bro . Buchan has yet to seek evidence in support of his " Free Tailor " theory .
Would it not be wiser to secure the evidence before authoritatively writing as if it existed ? For my part , having for years been personally acquainted with the leaders of the Trades Unions in England . I have sought in vain for any traces of there ever having been a " word and grip " among them .- —J . A . H .
J . A . H . The Chips of Foreign Ashlar are oracular and amusing , but they chiefly reveal the personal opinions and personal gastronomic feats of the writer . Permit me to observe that , so far from the rite of Mizraim being abandoned by the Grand Orient of France and
extinct ( p . 240 ) , the Grand Orient has but lately issued a warrant for that rite , and the rite is enrolled in its last Calendrier . So far from a foreign brother being astonished at the Scotch giving three degrees in the same night , there are many foreign brethren whohave received the three degrees in one night . True it
is German brethren do allow of a long interval between degrees . It is no new thing to have lodges tiled during banquet , and it would not be bad if it were more general , for many brethren speak very loosely before waiters , and indulge in signs and exlanations . A greater number of serving brethren
p is very desirable , instead of brethren being left to the attendance of a single Tyler during dessert . As J . A . H . naively says of Scotch degrees , so we say of his Chips , " good , bad , and indifferent . "—SCOTUS .
THE COMPANY OF THE TEOWEL . Your correspondent ( p . 2 to 7 ) has quoted one of the illustrations of Masonry which are worthy of being studied . We want in the Freemason ' s Magazine a fuller account of this society , and of various foreign organizations , social and artistic , some of which had
special emblems or ceremonies . If , however , he is right , as he doubtless is , that the speculative element is owing to the participation of the clergy in the early Masonic guilds and confraternities , then he can hardly be right as to the special influence of the Knights Templars . This is a simple concession to a legend of modern invention . — L . L .
EE VEL ATKINS . One of your correspondents , J . A . H ., has given us revelations of foreign Craft working . He has now been kind enough to give us part of the O . B . in the first degree in Scotland . If this is to onthere is nothing to prevent
go , J . A . H . from publishing the O . B . in our first degree here , whicli he will perhaps do to try the question , also the O . B . of the Mark degree , and the O . B . of the Eose Croix degree . We shall then be able to find out what the jurisdictions think of these things . —A FOEEIGNEE .
OLD FEEEMASONEY . The article by Bro . Hyde Clarke on " Old Freemasonry before Grand Lodge " is deeply interesting , and goes far to strengthen the confidence of those who hesitate to accept 1717 as the natal year of the Craft . The readers of the Magazine will doubtless be glad to hear more about the MS . of Bro . Younghusband . —J . A . H .
Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.
Masonic Notes And Queries.
when they began to learn their trade . However , in order to speak to the point , we must wait until we hear exactly what the MS . contains . — W . P . BUCHAN . THE FORMATION OP LODGES . Writing lefore tea , I confess I am unable to understand the appositeness of BroBuchan ' s licated
. comp metaphor of tea and sugar . Perhaps I may comprehend it better after an extra dose of " the cup which cheers but not inebriates . " Meanwhile , I think Bro . B . does not take into account the reasons mentioned in my last note for believing that the formation of 340 lod in half a century from 1717 would be
ges something extraordinary . Let me now add that it is within my own knowledge that , in many lodges up to our own day , tradesmen were practically excluded , so that the circle from which members could be drawn
was very limited . Moreover , there were , previous to the present century , political causes which prevented the spread of such a society as ours- My own grandfather was in his youth called a " Jacobite , " and he well remembered the time when society was divided by the adherents of the Royal Houses of Stuart and
Hanover , who strove to fulfil Scripture , inasmuch as " the Jews had no dealings with the Samaritans . " Nowadays , Freemasonry has a free course , and , with constant inter-communication , the spread of our colonies , the large multiplication of the population , and the increase of Masonic organization , no wonder lodges should be formed with great rapidity .
THE ANTIQUITY OF FKEEMASONKY . I quite agree with Bro . "F . T . W . " that the MS . he quotes from affords strong proof of a recognized difference between operative and speculative Masonry '' towards the end of the 15 th century . " But there is an earlier proof of this fact to be found in the Masonic
Poem first edited by Mr . Haliwell in 1842 , which , written as it was by a monk towards the end of the 14 th century , not only evidences the same admitted difference , but alludes in express terms to the reception of non-operative members into the Order . Abseuce from time and ill health have prevented for
me some time past taking any part in the controversy respecting the antiquity of our Order , but I have never changed my already expressed opinion that the antiquity of our Order is low / anterior to 1717 , and that recent attempts to sever the operative lodges from the revival of 1717 , are most unwise , and entirely opposed to a mass of evidence , direct and indirect , which we are gradually accumulating on the subject . —A MASONIC STUDENT .
MASONIC EAMBLINGS . Bro . "Beitam" appears to have given a very clear and concise statement of the probable origin of speculative Masonry , and it is not enough to answer such arguments with contradiction unsupported by proof . Our traditionsto be rejectedmust not merelbe
, , y denied , they must be proved to be false . It is easy enough to doubt , but , as "Eeitam" says , — "It is an equally foolish thing to believe everything and to believe nothinp-. "—J . A . IT .
MASONIC PEOBLEM . It appears that , after all , Bro . Buchan has yet to seek evidence in support of his " Free Tailor " theory .
Would it not be wiser to secure the evidence before authoritatively writing as if it existed ? For my part , having for years been personally acquainted with the leaders of the Trades Unions in England . I have sought in vain for any traces of there ever having been a " word and grip " among them .- —J . A . H .
J . A . H . The Chips of Foreign Ashlar are oracular and amusing , but they chiefly reveal the personal opinions and personal gastronomic feats of the writer . Permit me to observe that , so far from the rite of Mizraim being abandoned by the Grand Orient of France and
extinct ( p . 240 ) , the Grand Orient has but lately issued a warrant for that rite , and the rite is enrolled in its last Calendrier . So far from a foreign brother being astonished at the Scotch giving three degrees in the same night , there are many foreign brethren whohave received the three degrees in one night . True it
is German brethren do allow of a long interval between degrees . It is no new thing to have lodges tiled during banquet , and it would not be bad if it were more general , for many brethren speak very loosely before waiters , and indulge in signs and exlanations . A greater number of serving brethren
p is very desirable , instead of brethren being left to the attendance of a single Tyler during dessert . As J . A . H . naively says of Scotch degrees , so we say of his Chips , " good , bad , and indifferent . "—SCOTUS .
THE COMPANY OF THE TEOWEL . Your correspondent ( p . 2 to 7 ) has quoted one of the illustrations of Masonry which are worthy of being studied . We want in the Freemason ' s Magazine a fuller account of this society , and of various foreign organizations , social and artistic , some of which had
special emblems or ceremonies . If , however , he is right , as he doubtless is , that the speculative element is owing to the participation of the clergy in the early Masonic guilds and confraternities , then he can hardly be right as to the special influence of the Knights Templars . This is a simple concession to a legend of modern invention . — L . L .
EE VEL ATKINS . One of your correspondents , J . A . H ., has given us revelations of foreign Craft working . He has now been kind enough to give us part of the O . B . in the first degree in Scotland . If this is to onthere is nothing to prevent
go , J . A . H . from publishing the O . B . in our first degree here , whicli he will perhaps do to try the question , also the O . B . of the Mark degree , and the O . B . of the Eose Croix degree . We shall then be able to find out what the jurisdictions think of these things . —A FOEEIGNEE .
OLD FEEEMASONEY . The article by Bro . Hyde Clarke on " Old Freemasonry before Grand Lodge " is deeply interesting , and goes far to strengthen the confidence of those who hesitate to accept 1717 as the natal year of the Craft . The readers of the Magazine will doubtless be glad to hear more about the MS . of Bro . Younghusband . —J . A . H .