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  • The Freemason's Chronicle
  • Sept. 30, 1893
  • Page 11
  • BRIGHTON LODGE QUARTERS.
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The Freemason's Chronicle, Sept. 30, 1893: Page 11

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Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

We do nofc hold ourselves responsible lor tho opinions ol" out Correspondents . All Letters must bear the nam ** and address of tho Writer , not necessarily for publication , but as a guarantee of Rood faith . We cannot undertake to return rejected communications .

THE TYLER ' S TOAST ,

To the Editor of the FREKMASON ' S CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —Can yon inform rae of any regulation that exists as regards the ceremony of drinking the Tyler ' s toast . In London Lodges it ia j _ 'iven and received in like manner to other toasts , bufc I find in Provincial Lodgea that it is in many instances

given by the Tyler t-t'inding in any part of the room , the brethren being seated , the " poii . t-t" given in a whisper , and tbo " lire " gontly tapped on the cud * of the co .-V . Upon asking tho reason of this very extraordinary proceeding , I am told that fcho Tyler ' s oast is a silent toaft oufc of respect to tbo suffering of poor and distressed Masons . Is this right ?

Yours fi aternally , "VISITOR . [ There ate many variations of tho way in which this toast is given . In some parts of the country it devolves on the Junior Warden . We favour a " hearty " reception ,

on the principle that poor and distressed brethren should boas heartily received as others , and also because such a course is more likely to cheer them up than would the funereal custom referred to in the latter part of our coi-respondent ' s letter . The whole subject of toasts , their

proposition and reception , would form an interesting studysomewhat difficult to deal with in the pages of a public print , but we may be able to approach the subject later on . Has our correspondent visited a Lancashire Lodge ? He would find a very different " fire " there to what we are accustomed to in London . Another feature we have met with is the standing of all the members during the proposition of a toast . —BD . F . C ]

THE PREVIOUS QUESTION . To the Editor of the FREEMASON ' S CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —In yonr issue of the 16 th iust ., the writer of the article on " The Meeting of Grand Lodge" asks if any of your readers can inform him whether they have ever known a case in Grand Lodge where a motion for fche " previous question " has been allowed .

I ennnofc give him an instance ; and I cannot find any allusion to such a motion in fcho Grand Lodgo proceedings for the last twenty years , aud , like himself , 1 should be glad if any of yoor readers can inform mo whether there is any case on record ? I greatly doubt ifc . Perhaps tho writer of your article may be glad of the following quotations : —

" Previous Question . Ifc is oat of order in Masonry fco resort to this method of quashing a debate . " [ Mackenzie ' s Royal Masonic Cyclopaedia , p-. 574 . ] " Rules of Debate . 24 . No motion for the ' previous question' can be entertained . "— [ Po ton ' s Freemasonry and its Jurisprudence , p . 236 . ] "A call for tho previous question will not be permitted . "—[

Lockwood ' s Masonic Law and Practice , p . 53 . ] "Previous Question . A Parliamentary motion intended to suppress debate . It is utterly unknown in the Parliamentary Law of Masonry , and it would be always out of order to move ifc in a Masonio Body . "—[ Mackay ' s Encyclopedia of Freemasonry , p . 601 . ] " Now , there are various modes of closing a debate , all of whioh

are defined and regulated by Parliamentary law . One of these is by a call for the previous question . Althongh there is na positive law on tbe subject , yet the spirit of comity and courtesy which prevails in the Institution , the authority of tho best Masonic Jurists , and fche general usage of tbe Fraternity , have onenrred in the decision , th it the previous question cannot bo moved in a Masonic Lodge . AH the

provisions , therefore , of the parliamentary law which refer to tho subject of the previous question , are inapplicable in Masonry , and need not bo studied by the Master of a Lodge . "—[ Mackay ' s Masonic Parliamentary Law , p . 19 . ] " Debates in n Masonic Lodge must be conduotod according to the fraternal principles of tho Institution . In ihe language of Dr .

Oliver , the strictest courtesy shall be observed during a debate in a Mason ' s Lodge on questions which elicit a difference of opinion ; and any gross violation of decorum and good order is sure to be met by an admonition from the chair . It must always be remembered , that the object of a Masonio discussion is to elicit truth , and not simply to secure victory . Hence , those means of suppressing due inquiry , which are so common in popular assemblies , are to bc avoided :

therefore ifc is that the motion for the previous question so frequently resorted toby parliamentary stategists , as a means of stifling debate and silencing the voice of the minority , is never admitted in a Masonic Lodge . The discourtesy which such a motion exhibits on the part of the majority , and its evident object to prevent inquiry , mako it entirely antagonistic to the benignant principles of the Masonic Institution . I havo never , iu my own experience , known the , Woliou fn- ' the previous quebtiou' fco bo nnido iu any Masonic bod y

Correspondence.

and I suppose thafc the incompetency of such a motion has never been doabted . B * -o . Benjamin B . Fine * , who , from his long experience aa clerk of tho United States House of Representative * , had become an exptMfc in the science of parliamentary 1 iw , and who was equally skilful in Masonic practices , aiid that Freemasonry knows no ' previous qustion' and no Masonic body should ever tolerate it . "—

[ ib . pp . 55 , 56 . ] I mny , with your permission , have something to say upon the wiitot ' s i thor piint 1 t * r on , but monnwhilo would draw bis and your nt ' ontion to the curious confidence of your extract from The New York Dispatch priu'od in tho samo number of your paper on p . 173 . Yours fratorually , LEX SCRIPTA . 25 th September 1893 .

Brighton Lodge Quarters.

BRIGHTON LODGE QUARTERS .

A ME LANG HOLY example of the change that has coma over fche spirit of the Brighton Town Council , like so many other demo . erotic institutions , is to be found in the attitude taken up by a peculiar strata of Municipal thought towards the Masonic Fraternity . We can hardly compliment Mr . B ) oth on having allied himself to the little knet of busybodiea who have found their way into the Council

Chamber , but havo not hitherto entered fche fellowship of that mighty Order , that mysterious brotherhood , which , in spite of the sneers of its critics , is associated with some of the noblest charitable institutions of the conntry . * * * * * If the history of transactions connected with the letting of

apartments on this exclusive property ever comes to be trace 1 in black and white , tbe feature that will stand out most prominent on every page will be the cousirfcsnt manner in which the Committee has lost custom by extravagant demands for the accommodation . So far as the Masons are concerned , the negotiations may show that

a continuous hiring his been recognised as warranting a modified tariff , and under that scale of payment the various Lodges in the town have met in the Masonio Rooms to transact their business from year to year supremely unconscious thafc they were beggars on suffranoe , or thafc there was any cause for dissatisfaction as to the

terms of their holding . * * * * * The probability is fchafc Brighton Masons will treat with indifference fche sneers indulged in by a section of the Council . The observations are scarcely worth respectable consideration , but fche Chairman of fche Pavilion Committee owes it fco the Masonio Fraternity in the

town to refute the insinuations . When tbe promised raturn is presented it will probably be found that the Masons are one of the best customers the Pavilion has had . * * * * Only during the last year a project has been seriously considered by the Lodges to provide themselves with a Masonic Temple . The

majority of the Fraternity expressed themselves unwilling to enter , tain the scheme for the present because they felt thafc the Pavilion rooms gave them all the accommodation they required , and it wai not worth while incurring the risks necessarily involved in suck an undertaking whilo thoy had a central assembly room on fair and

reasonable terms . We are not sure that the insulting tone ' of somo of the observations made in the Council Chamber will nofc induce Masons to reojnsidar their position afc an eirly oppor ; unity . Then wo shall seo whit a magnifijenb rental cm . be made out of tho

Masonic Rooms . Assuredly tho Pavilion would sutler iu pro .-ti ^ o < li * l the Grand OrJer , whioh has the Princo of Wales as its urti-o-he-i-l and the Dnke of Connaught aa it *) 1 'roviucial Grand Masfcjriu Sussex , sever its connection with that historic place of mooting . —Brighton , Gazette .

According to Mr . Booth , the Masons pay much less for the use of the Pavilion rooms than any other public body . For the Masonio rooms they have been ' charged bifcheifco only iifteen shillings , whilst other folks are obliged fco pay threo pounds , and they are granted the use of the banqueting room for sixty shillings , whilst the ordinary

ch-irge is three times as much . More , undoubtedly , will have to be heard of this matter . Mr . Booth's charge of favouritism was nofc disposed of by the general assertion thafc the Masons are exceedingly good tcn . Tit . o , nor by Alderman Abbey and Mr . Daniel ' s t > i quoquc . A rdasoufible reduction , no doubt , ought fcj be mado for the frequent

use of the rooms by the sime body , bufc an allowance of seventy-five per cent , is too much . What the Masons have been paying can scarcely have covered the cost of gas and service . Csrtiinly no profit can have been gained from their tenancy , and I havo yet to learn why they shonld be favoured moro than ethers , or why tbey should be granted such a reduction from the ordinary charges of tho

Town Council as no private person with public rooms cjuld possibly afford to allow . The thanks of the town are due to Mr . Booth for bringing this matter to light . It must now be followed up , cither by Mr . Booth or Mr . Dell , with the view of getting tho scalo of charges to tbe Masons put on a satisfactory and business-like basis . —Brighton Guirdian .

Mr . J . E . Neale Shand , eldest son of Brothor J . E . Shand P . M ., Avon tho first prize ( a silver cup ) for swimming , at Messiv . Bertram & Co . ' s athletic sports at the Crystal Palace , on the 22 nd inst . Bro . Frank Tidiman officiated

as starter during the sports . The cup bears tho following inscription : — " Messrs . Bertram & O ' o . ' s Crystal Palace Athletic Sports . Pirsfc Swimming Prizo , won by J . E . ffculu Shand . 22 ud September 1893 . "

“The Freemason's Chronicle: 1893-09-30, Page 11” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 10 July 2025, django:8000/periodicals/fcn/issues/fcn_30091893/page/11/.
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Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

We do nofc hold ourselves responsible lor tho opinions ol" out Correspondents . All Letters must bear the nam ** and address of tho Writer , not necessarily for publication , but as a guarantee of Rood faith . We cannot undertake to return rejected communications .

THE TYLER ' S TOAST ,

To the Editor of the FREKMASON ' S CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —Can yon inform rae of any regulation that exists as regards the ceremony of drinking the Tyler ' s toast . In London Lodges it ia j _ 'iven and received in like manner to other toasts , bufc I find in Provincial Lodgea that it is in many instances

given by the Tyler t-t'inding in any part of the room , the brethren being seated , the " poii . t-t" given in a whisper , and tbo " lire " gontly tapped on the cud * of the co .-V . Upon asking tho reason of this very extraordinary proceeding , I am told that fcho Tyler ' s oast is a silent toaft oufc of respect to tbo suffering of poor and distressed Masons . Is this right ?

Yours fi aternally , "VISITOR . [ There ate many variations of tho way in which this toast is given . In some parts of the country it devolves on the Junior Warden . We favour a " hearty " reception ,

on the principle that poor and distressed brethren should boas heartily received as others , and also because such a course is more likely to cheer them up than would the funereal custom referred to in the latter part of our coi-respondent ' s letter . The whole subject of toasts , their

proposition and reception , would form an interesting studysomewhat difficult to deal with in the pages of a public print , but we may be able to approach the subject later on . Has our correspondent visited a Lancashire Lodge ? He would find a very different " fire " there to what we are accustomed to in London . Another feature we have met with is the standing of all the members during the proposition of a toast . —BD . F . C ]

THE PREVIOUS QUESTION . To the Editor of the FREEMASON ' S CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR AND BROTHER , —In yonr issue of the 16 th iust ., the writer of the article on " The Meeting of Grand Lodge" asks if any of your readers can inform him whether they have ever known a case in Grand Lodge where a motion for fche " previous question " has been allowed .

I ennnofc give him an instance ; and I cannot find any allusion to such a motion in fcho Grand Lodgo proceedings for the last twenty years , aud , like himself , 1 should be glad if any of yoor readers can inform mo whether there is any case on record ? I greatly doubt ifc . Perhaps tho writer of your article may be glad of the following quotations : —

" Previous Question . Ifc is oat of order in Masonry fco resort to this method of quashing a debate . " [ Mackenzie ' s Royal Masonic Cyclopaedia , p-. 574 . ] " Rules of Debate . 24 . No motion for the ' previous question' can be entertained . "— [ Po ton ' s Freemasonry and its Jurisprudence , p . 236 . ] "A call for tho previous question will not be permitted . "—[

Lockwood ' s Masonic Law and Practice , p . 53 . ] "Previous Question . A Parliamentary motion intended to suppress debate . It is utterly unknown in the Parliamentary Law of Masonry , and it would be always out of order to move ifc in a Masonio Body . "—[ Mackay ' s Encyclopedia of Freemasonry , p . 601 . ] " Now , there are various modes of closing a debate , all of whioh

are defined and regulated by Parliamentary law . One of these is by a call for the previous question . Althongh there is na positive law on tbe subject , yet the spirit of comity and courtesy which prevails in the Institution , the authority of tho best Masonic Jurists , and fche general usage of tbe Fraternity , have onenrred in the decision , th it the previous question cannot bo moved in a Masonic Lodge . AH the

provisions , therefore , of the parliamentary law which refer to tho subject of the previous question , are inapplicable in Masonry , and need not bo studied by the Master of a Lodge . "—[ Mackay ' s Masonic Parliamentary Law , p . 19 . ] " Debates in n Masonic Lodge must be conduotod according to the fraternal principles of tho Institution . In ihe language of Dr .

Oliver , the strictest courtesy shall be observed during a debate in a Mason ' s Lodge on questions which elicit a difference of opinion ; and any gross violation of decorum and good order is sure to be met by an admonition from the chair . It must always be remembered , that the object of a Masonio discussion is to elicit truth , and not simply to secure victory . Hence , those means of suppressing due inquiry , which are so common in popular assemblies , are to bc avoided :

therefore ifc is that the motion for the previous question so frequently resorted toby parliamentary stategists , as a means of stifling debate and silencing the voice of the minority , is never admitted in a Masonic Lodge . The discourtesy which such a motion exhibits on the part of the majority , and its evident object to prevent inquiry , mako it entirely antagonistic to the benignant principles of the Masonic Institution . I havo never , iu my own experience , known the , Woliou fn- ' the previous quebtiou' fco bo nnido iu any Masonic bod y

Correspondence.

and I suppose thafc the incompetency of such a motion has never been doabted . B * -o . Benjamin B . Fine * , who , from his long experience aa clerk of tho United States House of Representative * , had become an exptMfc in the science of parliamentary 1 iw , and who was equally skilful in Masonic practices , aiid that Freemasonry knows no ' previous qustion' and no Masonic body should ever tolerate it . "—

[ ib . pp . 55 , 56 . ] I mny , with your permission , have something to say upon the wiitot ' s i thor piint 1 t * r on , but monnwhilo would draw bis and your nt ' ontion to the curious confidence of your extract from The New York Dispatch priu'od in tho samo number of your paper on p . 173 . Yours fratorually , LEX SCRIPTA . 25 th September 1893 .

Brighton Lodge Quarters.

BRIGHTON LODGE QUARTERS .

A ME LANG HOLY example of the change that has coma over fche spirit of the Brighton Town Council , like so many other demo . erotic institutions , is to be found in the attitude taken up by a peculiar strata of Municipal thought towards the Masonic Fraternity . We can hardly compliment Mr . B ) oth on having allied himself to the little knet of busybodiea who have found their way into the Council

Chamber , but havo not hitherto entered fche fellowship of that mighty Order , that mysterious brotherhood , which , in spite of the sneers of its critics , is associated with some of the noblest charitable institutions of the conntry . * * * * * If the history of transactions connected with the letting of

apartments on this exclusive property ever comes to be trace 1 in black and white , tbe feature that will stand out most prominent on every page will be the cousirfcsnt manner in which the Committee has lost custom by extravagant demands for the accommodation . So far as the Masons are concerned , the negotiations may show that

a continuous hiring his been recognised as warranting a modified tariff , and under that scale of payment the various Lodges in the town have met in the Masonio Rooms to transact their business from year to year supremely unconscious thafc they were beggars on suffranoe , or thafc there was any cause for dissatisfaction as to the

terms of their holding . * * * * * The probability is fchafc Brighton Masons will treat with indifference fche sneers indulged in by a section of the Council . The observations are scarcely worth respectable consideration , but fche Chairman of fche Pavilion Committee owes it fco the Masonio Fraternity in the

town to refute the insinuations . When tbe promised raturn is presented it will probably be found that the Masons are one of the best customers the Pavilion has had . * * * * Only during the last year a project has been seriously considered by the Lodges to provide themselves with a Masonic Temple . The

majority of the Fraternity expressed themselves unwilling to enter , tain the scheme for the present because they felt thafc the Pavilion rooms gave them all the accommodation they required , and it wai not worth while incurring the risks necessarily involved in suck an undertaking whilo thoy had a central assembly room on fair and

reasonable terms . We are not sure that the insulting tone ' of somo of the observations made in the Council Chamber will nofc induce Masons to reojnsidar their position afc an eirly oppor ; unity . Then wo shall seo whit a magnifijenb rental cm . be made out of tho

Masonic Rooms . Assuredly tho Pavilion would sutler iu pro .-ti ^ o < li * l the Grand OrJer , whioh has the Princo of Wales as its urti-o-he-i-l and the Dnke of Connaught aa it *) 1 'roviucial Grand Masfcjriu Sussex , sever its connection with that historic place of mooting . —Brighton , Gazette .

According to Mr . Booth , the Masons pay much less for the use of the Pavilion rooms than any other public body . For the Masonio rooms they have been ' charged bifcheifco only iifteen shillings , whilst other folks are obliged fco pay threo pounds , and they are granted the use of the banqueting room for sixty shillings , whilst the ordinary

ch-irge is three times as much . More , undoubtedly , will have to be heard of this matter . Mr . Booth's charge of favouritism was nofc disposed of by the general assertion thafc the Masons are exceedingly good tcn . Tit . o , nor by Alderman Abbey and Mr . Daniel ' s t > i quoquc . A rdasoufible reduction , no doubt , ought fcj be mado for the frequent

use of the rooms by the sime body , bufc an allowance of seventy-five per cent , is too much . What the Masons have been paying can scarcely have covered the cost of gas and service . Csrtiinly no profit can have been gained from their tenancy , and I havo yet to learn why they shonld be favoured moro than ethers , or why tbey should be granted such a reduction from the ordinary charges of tho

Town Council as no private person with public rooms cjuld possibly afford to allow . The thanks of the town are due to Mr . Booth for bringing this matter to light . It must now be followed up , cither by Mr . Booth or Mr . Dell , with the view of getting tho scalo of charges to tbe Masons put on a satisfactory and business-like basis . —Brighton Guirdian .

Mr . J . E . Neale Shand , eldest son of Brothor J . E . Shand P . M ., Avon tho first prize ( a silver cup ) for swimming , at Messiv . Bertram & Co . ' s athletic sports at the Crystal Palace , on the 22 nd inst . Bro . Frank Tidiman officiated

as starter during the sports . The cup bears tho following inscription : — " Messrs . Bertram & O ' o . ' s Crystal Palace Athletic Sports . Pirsfc Swimming Prizo , won by J . E . ffculu Shand . 22 ud September 1893 . "

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