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  • June 29, 1878
  • Page 8
  • CORRESPONDENCE.
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The Freemason's Chronicle, June 29, 1878: Page 8

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The Four Old Lodges.

Wardens , and tho Master and Wardens of sixteen Lodges constituted betwixt 1717 and 1721 , on tho other part . Q VI . —By the above prudent precaution of our antient brethren , the original Constitutions Avere established as the basis of all future Masonic jurisdiction in the Sonth of

England ; and the Ancient Landmarks , as they are emphatically styled , or tbe boundaries set up as checks to innovation or absolute dominion , Avere carefully secured against the attacks of future invaders . Tho four old Lodges , in consequence of the above contract , in Avhich they considered

themselves as a distinct party , ( ' ) continued to act by their original authority . And so far from surrendering any of their rights , had them frequently ratified and confirmed by the whole fraternity in Grand Lodge assembled , who ahvays acknoAvledged their independent and immemorial

power to practise the rites of Masonry . No regulations of the Society , which might hereafter take place , could therefore operate with respect to thoso Lodges , if such regulations were contrary to , or subversive of , the original

Constitutions by which only they Avere governed ; and Avhile their proceedings were conformable to those Constitutions , no power known in Masonry could legally deprive them of any right or privilege Avhich they had ever enjoyed .

§ 16 . —The following circumstantial account of the Old Lodges . f ) by Bro . William Preston , P . M . Lodge of Antiquity ( the Masonic historian ) , may here be appropriately inserted : —

I . — " Of the four old Lodges there is only one extant , viz ., No . 1 . The old Lodge of St . Paul , noAV named the Lodge of Antiquity , formerly held at the Goose and Gridiron in

St . Paul's Church-yard . ( ' ) II . — " The Lodge No . 2 , formerly held at the Crown in Parker ' s Lane in Drury Lane , has been extinct above fifty (" ' ) years , by the death of its members .

III . — " Lodge No . 3 , formerly held at the Apple Tree Tavern , in Charles-street , Covent-garden , has been dissolved many years . By the List of Lodges inserted in the Book of Constitutions , printed in 1738 , ifc appears , that in February 1722-3 , this Lodge was removed to the Queen ' s

Head , in Knave ' s Acre , on account of some difference among its members ; and that the members who met there came under a NEW Constitution , though , says

the Book of Constitutions , THEY AVANTED IT NOT : ( ) and ranked as No . 10 in the list . Thus they inconsiderately renounced their former rank and every ancient privilege AA-hich they derived from their immemorial Constitution . ( )

IV . —Original No . 4 , formerly held at the Rummer and Grapes , removed to the Horn Tavern , and then agreed to incorporate with the Somerset House Lodge , Avhich immediately assumed their rank . " The members of

The Four Old Lodges.

this Lodge , says Preston , "tacitly agreed to a renunciation of their rights as one of the four original Lodges , by openly avoAving a declaration of their Master in Grand Lodge . They put themselves entirely under the authority of the Grand Lodge ; claimed no distinct privilege , by

virtue of an Immemorial Constitution , but precedency oi rank , and considered themselves subject to every laAv or regulation of the Grand Lodge , over whom they could admit of no control , and to whose determination thoy aud every Lodgo Avero bound to submit . "

It was resolved in Grand Lodge , that tho members of tho Lodge of Antiquity should agree to the samo proposition , but they refused , it being , in their opinion , repugnant to the contract established afc the first formation of the Grand Lodge , and to the original constitutions of the Order , to Avhich all Masons in England Avero bound to pay obedience .

V . —Upon this tho Lodge of Antiquity withdrew from the Grand Lodge , published a Manifesto in vindication of its conduct , resumed its original poAvers , and having asserted that the contract of 1721 had been violated by the Grand Lodge , proceeded to act as a Lodge in tho same

manner it Avas authorised to do before that contract Avas formed ; whilst , therefore , the Lodges constituted subsequently to the Revival necessarily derived their sanction from the Grand Lodge , tho Four Old Lodges continued to act by their OAvn inherent authority . ( )

Ifc may be interesting now to turn to Bro . Preston ' s description of the temporary secession of the Lodge of Antiquity , original No . 1 , from the Regular Grand Lodge , as well as to his enumeration of the privileges enjoyed by the time Immemorial Lodges . ( )

Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

We do not hold ourselves responsible for the opinions of our Cor . respondents . We cannot undertake to return rejected communications . ill Letters must bear the name and address of the Writer , not necessarily for publication , but as a guarantee of good faith .

THE FOUR OLD LODGES .

To the Editor of THE FREEMASON ' S CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR ANn BROTHER , —Bro . Gould ' s series of papers on the " Four Old Lodges , " which is now appearing in the columns of your valuable journal , will be Avolcomed by all Avho take an interest in Masonic History . Having had considerable experience in similar fields of labour , I am in a position to testify to the arduous natnro

of the task he has undertaken , and I have no doubt the Craft generally will bestow on him that applause to which he is so justly entitled . My object , however , in addressing theso few remarks , is nofc so much to applaud a work , the merits of which are self-evident , as to direct Bro . Gould ' s attention to apparent discrepancies between him and Bro . Hughan , in tho case of sundry of our earliest Lodges .

You doubtless bear in mind thafc when Bro . Hnghan published his " Pine's List , " for 1734 , being No . 6 of his "Masonic Sketches and Reprints , " you entrusted to me the task of offering such comments on it as might seem desirable . In the fulfilment of my duty as reviewer , I noted that Bro . Hnghan traced the No . 11 , of Pine 1734 , as being No . 18 , Old Dnndee , of the present day , and I educed

from this that , on the assumption that Bro . Hnghan's suggestion was correct , tho Old Dundee , No . 18 , was , in truth , thafc old Time Immemorial Lodge , No . 3 , which , in 1717 , met afc the Appletren Tavern in Charles-street , Covent-garden , but which , according to the list published in the 1738 Edition of the Constitutions , removed in February 1722-3 , to the Queen ' s Head , Knave ' s Acre , and there met

under a new Constitution , " though they wanted it not . " In this list ifc figured as No . 10 , and in Pine ' s List 1734 as No . 11 . It is also No . 11 in Pine ' s Lists of 1729 and 1730 , as stated by Bro . Gould in his first paper , and No . 11 in Kawliuson ' s List 1733 . Ifc is No . 48 in tho Dublin List for 1735 , contributed by Bro . Hughan to the Masonic Magazine for January 1877 , and deducting the thirt y-seven Irish

Lodges , this places it as r « o . 11 among English Lodges ; while in Cole ' s List for 1763 , contributed to the last Chrismas number of tho samo Magazine , it appears to rank cither as No . 6 ( having in the interim jumped over two other Lodges ) , if we are to consider 27 th February 1722 , and 27 th February 1722-3 , as standing for the

same date , or No . 8 , if Bro . Hughan s remark is correct , that " tho numeration observed is according to the new list made in 1750 , the former alterations having been made in 1740 , " though the date of Constitution , as given in the list of Cole ' s— " May 1722 "—does not tally with previous dates . Or ifc may be—and if Bro . Hughan ' s surmise

“The Freemason's Chronicle: 1878-06-29, Page 8” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 2 Aug. 2025, django:8000/periodicals/fcn/issues/fcn_29061878/page/8/.
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INDEX. Article 3
OUR EIGHTH VOLUME. Article 5
MASONIC FETE IN DUBLIN. Article 5
MASONIC PORTRAITS. (No. 60.) Article 6
THE FOUR OLD LODGES. Article 7
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 8
CONFLICTING ACCOUNTS ABOUT THOMAS DUNCKERLEY. Article 9
CONSECRATION OF THE LODGE OF PERSEVERANCE, No. 1743. Article 10
PILGRIMAGE OF KNIGHTS TEMPLAR TO EUROPE. Article 11
COMMITTEE MEETING OF THE GIRLS' SCHOOL. Article 11
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The Four Old Lodges.

Wardens , and tho Master and Wardens of sixteen Lodges constituted betwixt 1717 and 1721 , on tho other part . Q VI . —By the above prudent precaution of our antient brethren , the original Constitutions Avere established as the basis of all future Masonic jurisdiction in the Sonth of

England ; and the Ancient Landmarks , as they are emphatically styled , or tbe boundaries set up as checks to innovation or absolute dominion , Avere carefully secured against the attacks of future invaders . Tho four old Lodges , in consequence of the above contract , in Avhich they considered

themselves as a distinct party , ( ' ) continued to act by their original authority . And so far from surrendering any of their rights , had them frequently ratified and confirmed by the whole fraternity in Grand Lodge assembled , who ahvays acknoAvledged their independent and immemorial

power to practise the rites of Masonry . No regulations of the Society , which might hereafter take place , could therefore operate with respect to thoso Lodges , if such regulations were contrary to , or subversive of , the original

Constitutions by which only they Avere governed ; and Avhile their proceedings were conformable to those Constitutions , no power known in Masonry could legally deprive them of any right or privilege Avhich they had ever enjoyed .

§ 16 . —The following circumstantial account of the Old Lodges . f ) by Bro . William Preston , P . M . Lodge of Antiquity ( the Masonic historian ) , may here be appropriately inserted : —

I . — " Of the four old Lodges there is only one extant , viz ., No . 1 . The old Lodge of St . Paul , noAV named the Lodge of Antiquity , formerly held at the Goose and Gridiron in

St . Paul's Church-yard . ( ' ) II . — " The Lodge No . 2 , formerly held at the Crown in Parker ' s Lane in Drury Lane , has been extinct above fifty (" ' ) years , by the death of its members .

III . — " Lodge No . 3 , formerly held at the Apple Tree Tavern , in Charles-street , Covent-garden , has been dissolved many years . By the List of Lodges inserted in the Book of Constitutions , printed in 1738 , ifc appears , that in February 1722-3 , this Lodge was removed to the Queen ' s

Head , in Knave ' s Acre , on account of some difference among its members ; and that the members who met there came under a NEW Constitution , though , says

the Book of Constitutions , THEY AVANTED IT NOT : ( ) and ranked as No . 10 in the list . Thus they inconsiderately renounced their former rank and every ancient privilege AA-hich they derived from their immemorial Constitution . ( )

IV . —Original No . 4 , formerly held at the Rummer and Grapes , removed to the Horn Tavern , and then agreed to incorporate with the Somerset House Lodge , Avhich immediately assumed their rank . " The members of

The Four Old Lodges.

this Lodge , says Preston , "tacitly agreed to a renunciation of their rights as one of the four original Lodges , by openly avoAving a declaration of their Master in Grand Lodge . They put themselves entirely under the authority of the Grand Lodge ; claimed no distinct privilege , by

virtue of an Immemorial Constitution , but precedency oi rank , and considered themselves subject to every laAv or regulation of the Grand Lodge , over whom they could admit of no control , and to whose determination thoy aud every Lodgo Avero bound to submit . "

It was resolved in Grand Lodge , that tho members of tho Lodge of Antiquity should agree to the samo proposition , but they refused , it being , in their opinion , repugnant to the contract established afc the first formation of the Grand Lodge , and to the original constitutions of the Order , to Avhich all Masons in England Avero bound to pay obedience .

V . —Upon this tho Lodge of Antiquity withdrew from the Grand Lodge , published a Manifesto in vindication of its conduct , resumed its original poAvers , and having asserted that the contract of 1721 had been violated by the Grand Lodge , proceeded to act as a Lodge in tho same

manner it Avas authorised to do before that contract Avas formed ; whilst , therefore , the Lodges constituted subsequently to the Revival necessarily derived their sanction from the Grand Lodge , tho Four Old Lodges continued to act by their OAvn inherent authority . ( )

Ifc may be interesting now to turn to Bro . Preston ' s description of the temporary secession of the Lodge of Antiquity , original No . 1 , from the Regular Grand Lodge , as well as to his enumeration of the privileges enjoyed by the time Immemorial Lodges . ( )

Correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE .

We do not hold ourselves responsible for the opinions of our Cor . respondents . We cannot undertake to return rejected communications . ill Letters must bear the name and address of the Writer , not necessarily for publication , but as a guarantee of good faith .

THE FOUR OLD LODGES .

To the Editor of THE FREEMASON ' S CHRONICLE . DEAR SIR ANn BROTHER , —Bro . Gould ' s series of papers on the " Four Old Lodges , " which is now appearing in the columns of your valuable journal , will be Avolcomed by all Avho take an interest in Masonic History . Having had considerable experience in similar fields of labour , I am in a position to testify to the arduous natnro

of the task he has undertaken , and I have no doubt the Craft generally will bestow on him that applause to which he is so justly entitled . My object , however , in addressing theso few remarks , is nofc so much to applaud a work , the merits of which are self-evident , as to direct Bro . Gould ' s attention to apparent discrepancies between him and Bro . Hughan , in tho case of sundry of our earliest Lodges .

You doubtless bear in mind thafc when Bro . Hnghan published his " Pine's List , " for 1734 , being No . 6 of his "Masonic Sketches and Reprints , " you entrusted to me the task of offering such comments on it as might seem desirable . In the fulfilment of my duty as reviewer , I noted that Bro . Hnghan traced the No . 11 , of Pine 1734 , as being No . 18 , Old Dnndee , of the present day , and I educed

from this that , on the assumption that Bro . Hnghan's suggestion was correct , tho Old Dundee , No . 18 , was , in truth , thafc old Time Immemorial Lodge , No . 3 , which , in 1717 , met afc the Appletren Tavern in Charles-street , Covent-garden , but which , according to the list published in the 1738 Edition of the Constitutions , removed in February 1722-3 , to the Queen ' s Head , Knave ' s Acre , and there met

under a new Constitution , " though they wanted it not . " In this list ifc figured as No . 10 , and in Pine ' s List 1734 as No . 11 . It is also No . 11 in Pine ' s Lists of 1729 and 1730 , as stated by Bro . Gould in his first paper , and No . 11 in Kawliuson ' s List 1733 . Ifc is No . 48 in tho Dublin List for 1735 , contributed by Bro . Hughan to the Masonic Magazine for January 1877 , and deducting the thirt y-seven Irish

Lodges , this places it as r « o . 11 among English Lodges ; while in Cole ' s List for 1763 , contributed to the last Chrismas number of tho samo Magazine , it appears to rank cither as No . 6 ( having in the interim jumped over two other Lodges ) , if we are to consider 27 th February 1722 , and 27 th February 1722-3 , as standing for the

same date , or No . 8 , if Bro . Hughan s remark is correct , that " tho numeration observed is according to the new list made in 1750 , the former alterations having been made in 1740 , " though the date of Constitution , as given in the list of Cole ' s— " May 1722 "—does not tally with previous dates . Or ifc may be—and if Bro . Hughan ' s surmise

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